Vpr Ideas Thread

[viper275]

Because I'm not quite sure what Vpr4 will be and a planning thread for future games would be nice, this thread was made (but I'll use it in the future.) Here are some thoughts I had.

1. Arathorn's Defiant Variant, maybe on a Pangaea map. Potential civs include Rome, Greece?, Japan, France?, Iroquois? (good civ but overplayed), Celts, Arabs, Sumeria. If we have a civ with a fast UU maybe a flatter world (perhaps 60% Pangaea, Arid 5 billion and Warm?) Raging barbs may add some fun too . Probably Monarch on this. The variant:

Defiant: You must never give in to a demand from an opponent, that is, you always reject demands for tribute. You may never ally, sign a Right of Passage, MPP, or embargo with another civilization. You may never pay for peace (a peace treaty must either be straight-up or the opponent gives a concession to you. A deal where a tech costs 20 gpt normally and you pay 10 gpt for that tech as part of a peace treaty is fine). Any troops on your soil must be given a boot order every turn. No capturing foreign cities or demanding them in diplomacy. No foreign workers merged into existing cities. If an AI razes one of your cities, that civ must be eliminated.

2. No Optional Techs. Potential civs include Greece, Russia, England, Korea, Sumeria, or Byzantines. Not sure on the map. Sounds tough, Monarch level?
3. Dutch in the World War II Pacific Scenario. Never really got to doing this, sounds tough and fun (the AIs will probably do all the work for us .) Monarch (again?) Edit: Doesn't sound too good, Doc Tsiolkovski mentioned Portugal on Napoleonic Europe.
4. Not the best start. Emperor is pretty easy for me now, provided that I get a fairly good start and all that. This game will be unpredictable, Standard world, the rest random, and I'll make sure we don't get "6 cows, a river, and ivory." This won't be a DocT3 start, just something like no food bonus, fresh water, and lots of plains. On Emperor of course.

Oh, and I never was able to win on my barbaric variant. I've almost come to believe it's nearly impossible.

Comments, other ideas, etc?

 

[plarq]

My $0.02:

1.Under Emperor,defiant means nothing(You're always high on military).
I suggest a kin to the Dark Empire II(Emperor,America,Defiant,no representive goverment).
2.No Optional Tech means no scientific civ,so Korea,Greece,Russia,Sumeria and Byzantine ruled out(Unless you never enter IA or reload if you get free Nationalism).And you need Infantry-Like UU(No Knights and Cavs,I'd choose Vikings).
3.Dutch in WWII?You can't do anything,trapped in Jungles and given the strength of Nipponese Infantry,you may win sitting while computers fighting.I'll have a close look on Mapeditor.Suggest emperor.
4.DocT3's start is too tough for Emperor-DG level player.Jurimax1-Ottoman Monarch start(Dry with food bonus) is fair.

Edit:After I see the pathetic number of Dutch army,I say it's not practical,you will be sitting...

 

[viper275]

1.Under Emperor,defiant means nothing(You're always high on military).
I suggest a kin to the Dark Empire II(Emperor,America,Defiant,no representive goverment).

Good idea. Emperor may be a challenge though, and I'm not sure about America for a game where we'll be at war a lot (not too good a UU+late GA and mainly about early expansion.)

2.No Optional Tech means no scientific civ,so Korea,Greece,Russia,Sumeria and Byzantine ruled out(Unless you never enter IA or reload if you get free Nationalism).And you need Infantry-Like UU(No Knights and Cavs,I'd choose Vikings).

I'm not thinking. Good idea on Vikings. Is the UU for pointy stick?

3.Dutch in WWII?You can't do anything,trapped in Jungles and given the strength of Nipponese Infantry,you may win sitting while computers fighting.I'll have a close look on Mapeditor.Suggest emperor.

Which is why I chose them . I think you're supposed to build a good infrastructure at the start, get some boats, and hit Japan with Infantry after they have an edge. Not too sure though.

4.DocT3's start is too tough for Emperor-DG level player.Jurimax1-Ottoman Monarch start(Dry with food bonus) is fair.

Maybe I should clarify. I meant something that was not like DocT3. Less food bonuses from the Jurimax start and you have something like what I was thinking of (part of my "problem" with a good start is I out-expand the AIs way too much.) Still not a DocT3 start but not too good.

Good thoughts.

 

[grs]

Good idea on Vikings. Is the UU for pointy stick?

On a continent with much water, or a archipelago even, the bezerk is awesome in the hands of a human. The AI has no adequate way to defend from them attacking citied from boats.
I don't understand the part about pointy stick. Imho this is not a question of the UU and given the level you mentioned is monarch - you should be able to compete in research - even in despotism.

 

[viper275]

I know that the Berserk is an amazing unit. Now that I think about it, I'm not too sure why I mentioned pointy stick. Perhaps it was because we can't build libraries/universities (so we can't research as fast, but as grs said it's not as much the UU that effects pointy stick.) I agree that no optional techs will be easy on Monarch, maybe I should try Emperor, although that would be difficult.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

*If you're looking for a tough, yet doable start, ask me.
*Dutch in WW2 are not really interesting. What about Portugal in Napoleonic Europe?
*In a NOT game, you can forget research after AA, simply because the best Gov available is Feudalism. So Vikings are the usual choice, simply because they allow you to finish the game before it becomes a pain.

 

[viper275]

If you're looking for a tough, yet doable start, ask me.

I'll keep that in mind if I do one of those games.

Dutch in WW2 are not really interesting. What about Portugal in Napoleonic Europe?

I played as Portugal once on Napoleonic Europe and it was very fun. That could be a good one to try as an SG.

In a NOT game, you can forget research after AA, simply because the best Gov available is Feudalism. So Vikings are the usual choice, simply because they allow you to finish the game before it becomes a pain.

That makes sense. Of course, then the variant isn't as difficult . Don't know about how much suffering I want this variant to cause

Thank you, everyone, for the ideas!

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

My two bits. What about a no representative government variant? Go communist or fascist. Republic makes too much gold available and we all seem to be in the habit of going republic.

 

[plarq]

Still suggest a kin to DH02 game,Evil Empire II(Emperor,America,Defiant,No Representive government,no invasion for another continent until F-15)

 

[Jurimax]

How about a variant where the only culture generating building you're able to have is your Palace? Would that be doable? And on what level?

Greetz Jurimax

 

[plarq]

@Jurimax:

It's called "No Culture" or Barbaric.Simply you'll have to use ICS city placement because no city except capital reaches more than 9 tiles.And flip chance is very high,so you'll have to raze most foreign cities.It also means Religious and Scientific are wasted.Iroquois in Deity done by Arathorn et al FYI.

 

[Jurimax]

Wow, I had no idea it has already been done.

Greetz Jurimax

 

[viper275]

@AdmK: That gave me an idea... maybe add it to the sort of good start game? Then it seems like we removed the stuff that (at least I) seem to do all the time.
@plarq: Not a bad idea. America isn't exactly known for warmongering in Civ, making this... interesting. But not invading the other continent until the Modern Age sounds somewhat dangerous (nukes .) Not that that's a bad thing .

 

[Jurimax]

@vpr
it is very doable with the Americans to await an invasion of another continent till the F15. See tmarcl1. We didn't have any of the other restrictions however.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Remove the no invade other continent. Do Evil Empire, Barbaric with the Mongols or Zulu. No representative government, no culture. Wonder building allowed since they would generate culture?

 

[viper275]

Interesting thoughts, I don't think I've ever played as the Mongols or the Zulu. Barbaric would make it much harder (no libraries), should the level go down to Monarch or do we want a big challenge?

For the #4 idea, seems like we're pretty clear on it. Any interest, and should representitive governments be allowed?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I would allow Small Wonders, otherwise it'll be quite a pain without the FP and MilAc (those do generate culture after all).
Mongols sound good, without further restrictions Emperor seems doable; would be interested. But Monarch would be fine as well.

Note I may have to restrict my Civ time in some weeks, so I may be forced to drop out if that game is still going on then .

 

[viper275]

So, how's Mongols, Defiant/Barbaric+small wonders/No representitive govs, Emperor, 60% Pangaea, Normal, Temperate, 3 billion? Comments, sign-ups?
@DocT: I would be glad to see you join. I understand RL is more important than civ, thanks for mentioning early.
Roster:
viper275
DocTsiolkovski
el filet
Admiral Kutzov
OPEN

A sixth spot reserved for a sub if DocT has to drop out.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

What about the Gov?

 

[el_filet]

sounds like an interesting variant, i'd like to join.

3 billion could be useful for the mongol keshik.
i'd say you can allow representative govs, with defiant play you're probably doing a lot of warring, which makes republic difficult anyway (WW & unit costs).