Vpr2- Always War Vikings

@BigNHuge: Thanks for that file, I'm going to use it :)
@all: I might be a little confused as to what goes to what turn because I go by the years shown in-game and they change patterns in the middle of my turns (from 50 years to 25 years or something like that.)

My future plan is an early Archer rush (it's Regent, they won't be able to defend themselves) and upgrade them later. Horsemen will be great.

Turn 1
Hardly anything.
Turn 2
Stockholm founded.
Turn 3
Connected the Horse resource to our empire.
Turn 4
Iron Working researched, begin Horseback Riding. No close Iron sources, they're on the other peninsula.
Turn 5
Zzz...
Turn 6
Nothing
Turn 7
Birka founded.
Turn 8
None.
Turn 9
Contact Arabia. They have 2 gold and no new techs to us (we're up by 2 or 3.) Declare war. Aarhus founded. 50 gold from a hut. Turn down science to 50% to get Horseback Riding in same amount of time but we get +4 gpt instead of -1.
Turn 10
Not much
vpr21250bc.jpg
 
viper275 said:
Got it.

@bed head: I usually am that way because some people aren't that way but if you want me to say, "You forgot the save!!!" I can do that.

I guess what I was trying to say is that you can do whatever you want.

On subject, your turns looked pretty good. I guess our next priority is to get iron? And, since we had planned on getting the GL, should we get started on that soon? As far as suggestions for the next players, I think we could use a few workers, from our barracks-less towns. We ought to get to math after HBR, so we can also build catapults in places without barracks.
 
OK, got it.
 
Initial Observations:

1. We haven't started the GL yet. I know we are not in as much of a rush because we are on Regent but it would be terrible to miss out on it to an advanced civ somewhere we haven't met yet so I am going to start it in Bergen as it seems to have the best shield potential outside of Trondheim, which we want to keep free as a) we need it to keep spitting out settlers and b) It doesn't have the Palace pre-build available in case there is a wonder cascade among the AI civs.

2. We are building chariots. Chariots suck. However we're just about to get HBR so I guess we can upgrade them. That may have been the idea all along.

3. We need more workers.

4. Our nearest iron is going to require a chain of probably 3 more cities before it can be hooked up, so that is the direction I'm going to expand in now. There's a good location for a city near the cow and forests but I think our priority has to be getting the iron.

5. Trondheim is a perfect 4-turn settler factory and can keep on churning them out indefinitely. I would be confident of winning with this starting position on practically any level! The AW variant will be interesting for me though, I've never tried that.

6. Oslo and Stockholm are building archers before barracks! We don't need to rush THAT much...so important to have that extra hp...

So my plan (hard to have a plan for 10 turns, but anyway) - send settlers out to create a city chain towards the iron. Build more workers so that we can get it hooked up quick. Start the GL in Bergen. In the meantime we already have enough troops to start seriously hassling the poor Arabs (but who left that archer where it can be attacked by that warrior? Naughty naughty! I prefer to move my archers in stacks of at least two so that they can help each other with that bombard on defense.

I'll start playing the turns in about half an hour, enough time for someone to post an emergency "Don't do that you fool!" reply...hehe
 
Nothing you said sounds wrong at all to me. Actually, mostly the same thoughts that I had.
 
Before starting:
I set Stockholm to barracks
Oslo to worker
Bergen -> MM to get 1 more shield per turn, swith to GL
Reykjavik can be micromanaged to produce an archer in 3 instead of 4 but it would slow down growth so I leave it as it is. Squeeze 1 more gpt out of it though
Likewise with Aarhus

Arabic warrior attacks our archer, takes 2hp, and...dies! :-)

1225BC: Reduce science by 1, still make HBR in 2 turns, get 5 extra gpt
WOunder archer fortifies. Moving the others towards it to form a stack in preparation for attacking Medina.
Our settler needs an escort, so I move the warrior out of Copenhagen and switch that city to make another.
Chariot moves to Birka.
1 worker moves to the furs in the forest near Aarhus - that lux will be useful.
1 worker moves towards Bergen - it is wonder-building and is going to need improvements.
1 worker starts mining a bonus grassland near Reykjavik

IBT: nothing

1200BC: Reduce science again, still make HBR in 1, make +13 gpt now
Our exploring warrior is bored and has seen everything in his neck of the woods. I'm bringing him home for some action. Nothing else happens.

IBT: An arab warrior comes out of Medina to say hello.

1175BC: We know Horseback Riding!
Copenhagen produces a warrior for defense and MP. I start it on a horseman.
Our warrior can attack the arab one but it's 50-50 so I fortify the warrior where he is and move our healed archer plus a recently arrived friend to join him.
Our chariot heads towards Stockholm where he will be upgraded when the barracks are complete. Should have sent him there right away :-S
Warrior/Settler pair head towards the iron.
Worker moves into the hills beside Bergen where he will build a mine. We may need the extra shields by the time he finishes and Oslo will be making another worker soon so he won't be missed too much.
Stockholm is now connected by road to the rest of our empire. It is short of food so I set the worker to irrigate the plains where he stands.
Science back up to 60% gives us Map Making in 15 turns and +2gpt. I chose Map Making over Mathematics for a couple of reasons. Catapults would be nice but with Map Making we can build galleys, harbors and even the Great Lighthouse, which would be VERY useful to us in this game. Being as we are a seafaring civ I think it makes more sense that we choose to explore the watery world rather than sit at home studying equations.. :-P
At the rate we can research on Regent we may not even need the GL and might be able to switch to another wonder. That decision will come a lot later though.

IBT: The arab warrio strolls past our stack and stays within firing range of our archers. Is he insane? Is he taunting us?

Trondheim produces a settler. I set it to wealth. Only kidding! I start another settler, of course.
Reykjavik produces an archer. He wants to fight but unfortunately the people are too unhappy when he experimentally leaves the city, so he returns to keep the peace. I set Reykjavik to produce a worker. We need at least twice as many workers as we have now so that our expansion can keep up with our settler factory...
Vet archer takes out the foolish Arab warrior without losing a hp.
The other archers and the warrior fortify and wait for the straggling companions to arrive. They will fight as a team or not at all! Besides, if we attack Medina now it will be destroyed. You never know, if we wait an extra turn it might grow and we would get to keep it.
We are going to take the risk of moving our new settler unescorted as the land appears to be free of barbarians and also because we can't spare the troops :-P

IBT: nothing

1125BC: Oslo produces a worker. I set it to Barracks.
There are 2 archers still to arrive but our troops are restless! They want blood! So I send a stack of 3 vet archers and a warrior into the territory around Medina. The warrior goes first and sees a Spearman! :-( Undaunted, the others follow.
The worker in Oslo is going to mine the BG between it and Bergen. This way Bergen can grab it if we get into a race for the GL (which seems unlikely, I admit, but it never hurts to be prepared...)
Bergen grows to size 5 but loses the extra shield to corruption :( I could set a citizen to work the forest and get an extra shield but I think it's more important to grow so I leave it as it is.
We can see Ugarit near the Arabic border, but nothing in the Diplo window yet. Is Ugarit the Hittites? I can't remember.
Science slider up 1, Map Making in 12, 0gpt per turn

IBT: nothing. The people of Medina are hunkering down in anticipation.
1100BC: The attack begins!
1st vet archer loses 2hp, takes out reg Spearman, and promotes! We see another spearman :(
2nd vet archer loses 1hp, takes out reg Spearman...and promotes!! Medina is destroyed. Not bad...
Our remaining troops wait for the 2 straggling archers to join up before advancing on the next (as yet nameless) city...

IBT: nothing

1075BC: Reykjavik produces a worker. I set it to work on Horseman.
Stockholm produces Barracks. I set it to work on a warrior (for defense)
Birka produces warrior. I set it to worker.
Upgrade our sole chariot to Horseman.
Reykjavik's new worker starts mining a BG. The other worker moves out in the direction of our borders to start building a road towards the iron. This could take a while...
Hard decision - does the worker at Stockholm irrigate another needed square for food, or start roading out towards the iron too? I decide to pay attention to Stockholm.
We are now making -2gpt but we have plenty of cash so I keep us on track to get Map Making in 9 turns.

IBT: nothing

Trondheim produces a settler. I set it to build another.
Our attacking force is finally united! Even though their bloodlust is high they unanimously agree to wait 1 more turn before moving towards the next Arabic city until a recently promoted elite archer is fully healed.
Our settler/warrior pair is 3 moves away from the coastal grassland spot beside the iron. Our other travelling settler is 3 turns from his planned destination (a coastal square beside the forest and a BG, and 4 land moves away from the iron city). The newly produced settler is going to walk up to a point 3 squares distant from Oslo, Bergen and Birka. Then the city chain will be sorted and our workers will have to get busy roading up...
We connect up our furs! This allows us to drop lux tax by 10% and start making 2gpt profit again. I send that worker to mine a BG near Aarhus.
Our exploring curragh sees purple borders! Iroquois, Indians? They are so far away that another civ to be at war with probably doesn't matter so I think I will zoom up and try to make contact and see what tech they have.
It's the Inca! They have Map Making and Mysticism. We have Lit and Philosophy. No way am I giving them Literature so we will have to take what we can get for Philosophy and our treasury...
:-( We are "close to a deal" for both but no cigar, and the rules forbid gpt trades. I can get Map Making for Philosophy and 32 gold, so I go for that. We are now researching Mathematics and will get it in 9 turns. Mysticism is nothing to us (we can get it in 4 turns any time if we want) so there is absolutely no point giving the Inca or anyone else the chance to build the GL before they deserve it. We trade. I declare war. Pachahuti is probably confused.

IBT: An arab warrior wanders out 2 squares from our fearsome horde.

1025BC: We have a horseman heading in his direction so our archers will ignore him and charge towards the Arab city borders.
Worker moves to start a road on a mined BG near Bergen which someone left unroaded...naughty naughty! :-)
Nothing else happens except movement.

IBT: The brave arab warrior keeps on heading towards Birka.

1000BC: He is on a hill and our horseman is in range. There is another hill he will get to next turn onto next turn and our horseman is in range now so no point in waiting.
Vet horseman loses 2hp but kills reg warrior.
Stack of 5 archers and 1 warrior moves into Arab lands again! We still don't see a city.
Our curragh sees Macchu Picchu, size 1.
Our travelling-alone settler reaches his final destination and meets up with our returning exploring warrior!
Our warrior/settler pair ALSO reach their final destination beside the iron.
Our third settler is 1 step away from where I was going to put him but he could be just as happy 1 square further along the coast leaving our core cities more breathing space so I will leave that decision to another.

And...that's all! I think the plans should be clear. We have 2 settler/warrior pairs who I was planning to have build cities right where they are and 1 settler 1 or 2 squares away from his destination - we need more workers and we need to start roading up the iron. Once that is hooked up we are going to be practically unstoppable even before getting Berserkers. We have a modest but experienced (3 elites!) stack of troops heading into Arab lands looking for a city to pillage.

Thanks - this was my first SG turn and I was having fun so sorry if I have written a minor novel - I will probably get briefer as the novelty wears off ;-)

IMPORTANT: I just noticed after posting the save that Trondheim will riot next turn unless lux tax is turned up again. I am not sure why this is, maybe because we have troops in enemy lands? It was happy at size 6 before. So whoever picks this up, don't forget to up the lux before pressing GO!

2nd Update: Now that I think about it, the settler/warrior pair near the iron could go on the other hill, or even on the iron hill itself? That way they have the grassland for food. A decision for someone else again...
 
Nice turns, and I certainly didn't mind all the writing. I thought it was interesting, especially when our troops were so successful.
 
My thesis is entitiled "This Is Another Fine Mess You've Gotten Me Into" (EDIT: not referring to DV, more like "I think, therefore I think I really f'd up")

Pre-turn: up lux slider - thanks DV. With increase, archer can leave Reykjavik.

@ DV - thanks for the set up. Nice set of turns

975 - Warrior in Border Expansion Corps reveals Mecca (size 3). Adjust Iron Road city spots. Navy moves S, meets Gandhi. He'll give Myst for 33g + writing - ok.

IBT - India building pyramids.

950 - Drop lux to 10%. Now +2gpt. Vet archer attacks Mecca & takes it. Found Stavenger, Odense, Hareid.

925 - Move SW out of Mecca, meet Hannibal on road. Get 31g for philo. Elite archer hits warrior, wins no GL.

900 - increase lux slider to 20% to prevent riot in Bergen. Capture worker.

875 - Locate Damascus (new capital). Drop science to 30% math still due in one. Carthagian border to south. Probably should have stopped and asked, but decide to research toward Monarchy. Science to 80%, poly in 8.

850 - Vet archer attacks, promotes. Elite archer attacks, dies. Elite archer wins. Reg. warrior attacks archer, wins.

825 - locate Bagdad. Found Molde.

IBT - Mao wants peace. He has no gold or techs.

800 -Destroy Arabs.

775 - Elite archer attacks C. warrior - no promotion. Horse kills C. warrior.

770 - zzz

We need a worker farm + FP. researching Poly in pursuit of Monarchy. Need to do some intel to see who has what techs.

Gambit - switch GL to FP. Think we can still win race to GL after completing FP, thoughts? Screenies in next post.
 
I didn't take off my shoes, so I'm not sure I counted turns correctly. If I played 11, I'm very sorry.

Screenies:
 
One more, I'm not sure how to get mulitple screen shots to display on one post. If I'm spamming please advise.
 
What are you beating yourself up over? The only negative there was the elite loss, and you couldn't have done anything about it. The Forbidden Palace move wasn't bad either, although I hope it is coming soon at the rate we are picking up cities. I think it gets more expensive the larger you are, just as the palace does, although if someone could clear that up it would be nice. But since Literature does tend to be ignored, and we are at regent, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
 
The Forbidden Palace move wasn't bad either, although I hope it is coming soon at the rate we are picking up cities.

Didn't do this move yet. Was opening it for discussion. we're still on course for GL unless next person changes. IIRC correctly we can get FP in 6 or 7

What are you beating yourself up over?

city placement and worker production (or lack therof) mainly.
 
We could easily have an expansion phase up north. Very nice turns! :cheers:

Way to :hammer: the arabs!
 
I would stick with the GL...it's not much use to us to have the FP so close to our capital and we still don't quite know what shape our empire will be. Plus the Inca were pretty technologically advanced when I met them. Maybe we should wait for a leader and rush the FP?

Nice turns Admiral...good to get Mecca so easily!

EDIT: The FP doesn't get more expensive with more cities. It's always 200 shields. I usually don't build it until I know where I want my second core to be. It's not so important in the early phase of the game.
 
Originally posted by Doc Tsiolkovoski

The FP does not change the rank of a city, but the # of 'good' cities is increased (OCN effect). And the FP does work as alternative center for distance corruption.

So the effect could be discribed as: A city gets its 'rank' from the distance to the Palace only now. Corruption is a formula considering rank AND distance. Thus you do not get a complete second core, but your core changes from a circle to an egg-shaped and bigger area.

Conquests made it less beneficial to place the FP far away.
 
OK, well my instinct is that having the FP so close will not give us the most benefits as I am sure we are going to have a large empire. For example, we are definitely going to have a lot of cities on that peninsula to the West and they will all be terribly corrupt unless we put the FP over there and build courthouses, in which case we will have a pretty good second core which could make a really big difference. On the other hand, this game may well be over before we hit the industrial ages, which is when we would expect a city over there to be able to complete the FP. We could use a leader to rush it, but we may want to use our first leader to make an army and be able to get started on Heroic Epic, Military academy.

Thinking about it, our research rate is probably high enough that we can survive doing our own research even with the fact that we cannot trade with any of the civs after the 1st turn we meet them. Once we make it to Invention and can build berserkers we almost will not need any other techs and could afford to go half an age behind in tech, as the berzerkers will dominate all the way until riflemen start appearing. So I agree that the GL is not an absolute necessity. But it would allow us to save a LOT of money for archer upgrades...

I vote to keep working on the GL but if people think having the FP in Bergen is a better idea (and we might get the GL anyway after the FP is built) then I will bow to that as it may well turn out to be a better plan. I have never built the FP that close to my capital before so I don't have enough experience of how much benefit it brings.
 
I think that our empire will look similar to ours right now but on that other peninsula. We could put the FP there. GL could help us, but it's Regent and I have usually been able to keep up on Regent in self-research.
Plus the Inca were pretty technologically advanced when I met them.
This happens to me every time I play against them. Is there a reason why? It's weird.
 
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