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Wait, where are you Carl Sagan?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Archon_Wing, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    So recently I had a game where I was waiting for one of those GPs that boosts the space race, but there were no more to recruit and nobody recruited him either.

    Do I really have to wait for people to catch up in tech or something? Nobody had an option for a Colonial War. I honestly think Space is wayyy too dependent on those 2 great people without falling asleep.
     
  2. mckinney156

    mckinney156 Chieftain

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    Pretty sure there are pool of great people per age and if you go through that age fast enough not all of them will spawn.
     
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  3. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Carl Sagan's an information era Great Person though. That's the last era and I only saw one from that (Kwolek) then no others appeared. Pretty sure there weren't any Information Era Engineers either.

    So it's possible to lose these people by going too fast?
     
  4. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Warlord

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    It happened on my last game too. I was wondering if enemy AI got it but when I looked in the history of who got the GP, it didnt show.
     
  5. antimony

    antimony Chieftain

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    Great people appear based on the era that a majority of Civs reached, plus 1 era. So you need to make sure a majority of Civs stay behind the information era to collect all the GS (or any other GP).
     
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  6. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    How the heck am I going to control what techs people get? (It's already bad enough that the GPs are randomly selected. I mean i guess I could grab techs in the manner to not enter the era too.

    It would come down to killing civs that are advanced or being so far ahead that you're scooping them asap. But any such workarounds means the game is effectively over anyways.

    It doesn't make any sense to me that Information Era people aren't available during the Information Era.
     
  7. Peserwin

    Peserwin Chieftain

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    He seems to be wiped out of the game. Finished 3 games after patch with SV but haven't seen Sagan. Is it a bug or did they remove him? He was quite OP but they could just have nerved him.
     
  8. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    This, Sagan is one of the latest GP available so no way he can be "erased" by the era mecanic of GP. In my last 2 game he also never showed up and was never recruited by another AI. The guy's gone.

    Now, i wouldnt dare say if it's intentional or just another bug.
     
  9. Locke_Daemonfire

    Locke_Daemonfire Chieftain

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    There seems to be a certain number of total GP per game. If the number runs out before a specific GP appears, that GP will never appear. If it says no more of this type to recruit, then it is already too late.
     
  10. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    Pretty sure you're both wrong on this. Generally, all information era GP people should always come up, at least that's how it was before the patch. The only exception was if you had a later-era start, in which case you'd generally only see one of each GP from each era (to my experience).

    I can confirm what OP reports, I have had the same happen in the (one) game I finished since the patch. It seems to me that either they:
    1. Changed the GP mechanism without reporting it (seems unlikely if not impossible)
    2. Deleted several GP relating to science victory (seems unlikely, the data are still in the game files)
    3. Screwed something up and made the whole system even more bugged than it already was (seems unli... actually, wait a moment ... :mischief:)
     
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  11. Luxerne

    Luxerne Chieftain

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    As Antimony stated, Great People that appear are based on the latest era half of Civilizations have reached, plus one. The reason for Information Era GP being eliminated ("All individuals of this type have already been earned") despite not all having been recruited is because the game interprets half of Civs reaching the Information Era as some additional era past the Information Era for GP, following the Global Era + 1 model it uses.

    Of course, there is no era in the game past the Information Era, and there are no Great People for a nonexistent era, so you get the GP "running out" prematurely because the game can't produce Great People for the "era following the Information Era."

    Frankly, it would be simpler for the GP system to just use the Global Era. At the moment, the only way to reliably secure important late-game GPs is to just prioritize the points for the desired type of GP heavily from the beginning of a game, as it is possible to surpass the GP Era and recruit later GP (playing as Kongo prior to the nerf, one could exhaust all the Writers by the Industrial Era), thus giving yourself more time to ensure that specific GP, like Carl Sagan or Stephanie Kwolek, have a chance to spawn before half of Civs reach the Information Era (in this case).

    Attached: screenshots of a Kongolese game in the Industrial Era (GP are all Modern Era, except for the cultural ones, as I had exhausted the Modern and Atomic Era cultural GP), a German game in the Modern Era (GP are Atomic, but I recruited all Engineers and some other GP types)

    20170630124830_1.jpg 20170720201239_1.jpg
     
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  12. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    Do you have any actual observations to support this theory? I know about the "era + 1", but I don't think it applies to information era in the way you describe. It goes against my experience from ALL much games prior the patch. In ALL my earlier games, ALL three information era scientists would always come up - in whatever order - except when I played delayed era start. So I don't believe this is the correct explanation.
     
  13. Calcifer

    Calcifer Chieftain

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    His explanation is correct. I created a thread in the bugs section some months ago, and that explains it perfectly. Link to the bug discussion, with some save files and screenshots: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...reat-people-in-lategame.610512/#post-14658651

    They also talk about this mechanism in this post: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-mechanism-of-great-people.619356/#post-14820552

    I'll add the save file from my last game: you can see that China, Nubia, Kongo, Germany and America reached the information age (5/8 civs). If you buy any GP, even the engineer or the merchant from the atomic era, you won't get any GP of that type after.
    I'll add some screenshots too, in case you don't have the DLCs or are too lazy to load the save file :)

    I think this should be enough to validate the "era+1" theory
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    This is so weird. I've got Russia and Congo and a game and they are both beasting through the civic tree. All the great people jumped to renaissance or Industrial era. No great scientists/merchants/admirals/maybe-others from the Medieval era were popped, and less than one of each of the classical era. Kind of ruins the game.

    I ended up getting a free ironclad centuries before anyone had caravels. I'm not sure I even had quinqueremes yet.

    A much more sensible solution would be for the GP to come from the era that the most living players are in. In case of a draw, pick the higher era. If all the GP in that era are exhausted, go to the next one. Any idea how hard that would be to mod in?
     
  15. Calcifer

    Calcifer Chieftain

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    So basically using Global Era instead of Global Era +1 as the GP era? That seems a good idea, it would solve the information era problem too.
     
  16. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    Is that how the global era is calculated? Wasn't aware of the details
     
  17. JaeChunDaeSung

    JaeChunDaeSung Chieftain

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    Stuff like this is why I tend to harass or exterminate the Kongo or Russians, without mercy.
     
  18. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    Thanx for posting confirmation. Really hope they fix this ASAP, because GP system was bad enough as it was before this bug, where you at least had to go through all three information era people before you got the blank screen.

    Afaik. this can't be modded. I think this is controlled in the core files which we don't have access to. Of course, if anybody can prove me wrong, it'd be a great day for the game.
     
  19. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    I have seen Sagan post-patch. I had reached the info age, but no one else had.

    Also, contrary to a comment above, you can get more than one great person per type per era with later-era starts. That game where I got Sagan was a renaissance start, and Kwolek showed up behind Sagan, although I didn't need her to finish up my Mars mission quickly.
     
  20. Olleus

    Olleus Warlord

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    What if we just moved all the GP to be one era earlier? Move all the medieval GP to the classical era, all the Renaissance one's to the medieval, etc... Might need a bit of interfacing messing around with the interface to not be confusing, but it ought to work. I can't remember, are the first great prophets Ancient era? That might mess things up a bit.
     

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