Wanted: Interface Mods

[Jon Shafer]

Hey guys.

Like with merging Python mods together, one aim for the next XP is to incorporate the best Civ 4 interface mods. One of the reasons the Civ 4 interface was all done in Python was to allow you all to take a crack at improving on where we started.

Which are the best and should be used? Note that this is also an invitation to produce new stuff, because it might be included.

One big issue though is getting mods which basically follow our current system. Having a lot of things hardcoded or customized for one particular ruleset would be a problem (e.g. calling some units, civs, etc. by name).

Anyways, which mods do you guys recommend we use?

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Not Just Another Game Clock

Replaced By Unit Mod

Enhanced Military Advisor

Modified Special Domestic Advisor

Raw City Commerce

Dawn of Man Mod

Exotic Foreign Advisor

Those are just a few

 

[Teg_Navanis]

Progor's extension of Vovan's UnitUpgrades Mod (combined with Sevo's Civilopedia) - there are so many versions around that it's gotten a bit messy, but I think this is the newest/best version - albeit it hasn't been updated for Warlords. Some people do have updated versions running in their composite mods though...

TechWindow

Attitude Icons




Well, unaltered gameplay mods are basically compilations of interface improvements, so you'd best have a look at these:

Yet Another Unaltered Gameplay Mod

Ket's Unaltered But Flavourful Gameplay Mod

Any list of interface mods that are around will pretty much look like a copy & paste from these threads...

 

[Dale]

Dom Pedro:

NJAGC: I don't really see the point of this one. I play windowed mode and quite clearly see the desktop clock. Not a compulsory core change in my opinion.
EMA: I can see how it would be useful, but contains a couple of major problems. Don't include it if it isn't fixed.
EFA: Didn't that have major problems with gold/commerce displayed? If it's fixed, include it. If not, don't touch it.

Teg:

AI: Whilst nice, I don't see how it can be really needed for the core game. Just mouseover the name for the same.

Everyone's gotta remember, whats good for mods may not be good for the core. Only include changes that are good for both the core AND all mods.

Dale

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Well... if we're going to talk about compulsory core changes, I don't think there's anything that needs to be there...

 

[Dale]

Well that's what I figured he was talking about.

Changes to the core game's interface.

Dale

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Yes, that is what he's talking about... but you said compulsory... and so I was suggesting changes to the core game interface, but none of those changes HAVE to be there... they would just be there for convenience. I mean, you play windowed mode... I don't. Other people don't. Does the game clock need to be there? Could I just play with windowed mode to see the clock? Or better yet look three degrees to my right at the clock next to the monitor? Sure.

 

[jray]

NJAGC: I don't really see the point of this one. I play windowed mode and quite clearly see the desktop clock. Not a compulsory core change in my opinion.

NJAGCM isn't about the real-time clock, since that's available from the vanilla options dialog anyway. What's really cool in NJAGCM is the game turns counter. IMHO that should be part of the core. The colors and game completion percentage are nice too, but the turn counter at least should be built-in to vanilla. It makes SG's so much easier, and you can also tell how soon those "greatest civs" reports will be coming up (and those provide nice intel before you've met all the civs).

 

[jray]

These are the mods I'd most love to see built-in to future expansions. They are all unaltered-gameplay mods that make the game more user-friendly & fun.

• Alerts! It's such a weight off your shoulders to have the game automatically telling you whenever you have a new trade opportunity, a new citizen to assign, a new unhappy/unhealthy situation to deal with, etc. There are three awesome mods in this category that come to mind:
  • Civ4lerts
  • Enhancements to Civ4lerts in the HOF mod (although the tech trade alerts in the HOF mod are currently buggy, often triggering a turn late)
  • Show Info
• simple reminders. This is a dream mod for absent-minded micro-managers like myself! For example, you can write yourself a "Switch back to Representation" note to pop up in 5 turns if you just adopted Police State to make Monty happy.
• Specialist Stacker. Not only does it let you actually SEE all your specialists, but it also identifies which ones you assigned yourself.
• Plot List Enhancements. Saves oodles of mouse-over time.
• SmartMap, hands-down the best map script ever! If somebody could figure out how to beef up river presence a bit, it would be near perfection, covering just about any gameplay experience imaginable.
• Attitude Icons or Show Attitude or similar mod to provide a quick view of attitudes, saving mouse-over time.
• Not Just Another Game Clock Mod, or at least an option to show game turn number.
• Improved versions of the Domestic, Foreign, and Military Advisors. I don't have enough experience with the various alternatives to make specific requests, but I would at least plead for inclusion of "Raw Commerce" and "Raw Production" columns in the Domestic Advisor (to make planning Academy and National Wonder locations easier). Also, the available military advisors seem to be great at giving either a quick overview of the enemy or a thorough overview of yourself... can we have the best of both worlds?
• Dawn Of Man. Definitely an improvement over the original.
• Raw Commerce City Display. Commerce really should be included in the city screen.
• Score enhancements
  • Dead Civ Scoreboard.
  • Compare turn score.
• Diplomacy text: ActualQuotes for Warlords and Great Person Mod with more names for some juicy historical flavor.
• Random names. It's nice to have flavor!
  • JRandomNames.
  • Random Unit Names.
  • Random City Names.
  • City Names for Warlords.
• Civilopedia enhancements.
  • Vovan's UnitUpgrades Mod... UPGRADED with promotions and better layout.
  • Add Unit and Upgrade Charts to your Pedia.
  • Replaced By Unit.
  • Civilopedia Promotion Info.
  • Sevo's Civilopedia.
• Action Buttons, a great starting point for modders adding buttons.
• TechWindow. Makes the tech window a lot more informative.
• AIAutoPlay. Ever had one of those games where you know you're gonna win, and you wanna get that entry in the HOF, but you just don't feel like going through the motions? This is the mod!
• Unit Statistics. Adds a nice RPG element.

EDIT: Added Dawn of Man mod.

 

[Dale]

Yes, that is what he's talking about... but you said compulsory... and so I was suggesting changes to the core game interface, but none of those changes HAVE to be there... they would just be there for convenience. I mean, you play windowed mode... I don't. Other people don't. Does the game clock need to be there? Could I just play with windowed mode to see the clock? Or better yet look three degrees to my right at the clock next to the monitor? Sure.

But a change to the core IS a compulsory change (whether it's an option to turn on or not). That means EACH game, EACH mod is running with the change. Anything that changes the core, changes every scenario, mod, custom asset with it. The affect is massive. For example, say you implement an interface mod to the core that adds a list of holy cities on the left of the screen (similar to the score list on the right). That breaks every scenario/mod that doesn't have religions, or changes religions massively.

Take the attitude icons for instance. Add that to the core, and every scenario/mod that utilises gameoptions always war, always peace, no war/peace, permanent alliances, the change is useless to them. It's useless information to know such and such is happy with you if you've got always war on. And anything that provides useless information should not go into the core.

That's why a hell-of-a lot of the interface mods available should NOT be in the core. Don't get me wrong, a lot of them are fantastic mods if used in certain situations, but nearly all of those interface mods do not work in EVERY situation which is a required of going into the core IMO.

Dale

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, I am going to take the easy route and say any interface mods done by TheLopez, Sevo or Jeckel.
Also, is it inappropriate to ask if any of the great gameplay mods and modcomponents which have been developed here will appear in the next XP?

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Teg_Navanis]

Dale, I disagree with part of your 'core' metaphor. When I hear the word core, I think of something hardcoded that can't be modified by outsiders, like the 18-civ-cap that was 'in the core' until it was made accessible in the Warlords SDK. Even though you don't explicitely say so, I think your last post implies a certain inevitability and absoluteness about changes to the game core.

But a change to the core IS a compulsory change (whether it's an option to turn on or not). That means EACH game, EACH mod is running with the change. Anything that changes the core, changes every scenario, mod, custom asset with it. The affect is massive. For example, say you implement an interface mod to the core that adds a list of holy cities on the left of the screen (similar to the score list on the right). That breaks every scenario/mod that doesn't have religions, or changes religions massively.

I don't think a change to the main game has to be an improvement in EVERY situation, for EVERY mod, or be avoided otherwise - after all, the next expansion will be no less moddable and any inconsistencies between the main game and mods can easily be dealt with by any modder who makes massive changes to the game. If a mod removes all religions, the mod maker may have to modify/remove the holy city list from the screen that created it. But
should the Firaxis people refrain from including such a list just because there might be a mod that removes all religions and thus can't use this list? You could make the same argument against the religious screen (F7) in the first place.

I agree with you that an interface mod needs to be adaptable to some extent, and that has also been Trip's caveat in the start post. But I think that most of the mods mentioned here are in fact flexible enough for inclusion in the main game. I'm more concerned about bugs and compatibility issues that also affect the main game. The Plot List Enhancement mod has been unsupported for quite some time, and I know of no release that is entirely bug free.

 

[Teg_Navanis]

Note that this is also an invitation to produce new stuff, because it might be included.

OK, this is a shameless attempt to elicit information from you, but I just couldn't pass the chance: what would be the deadline for such a contribution?

 

[Jaythekiller]

you should include "Tech Tree Editor" by The Lopez
In fact you should(but you already know )include a COMPLETE editor(in a modder's dream it could change anything into python,XML and why not C++)
Carry on

 

[Dale]

JtK:

And how would you compile it? Not trying to put a dampner on the idea, but would you prefer Firaxis to only work on a compiler for modders for the next 3 years rather than an expansion pack with new/more stuff? I pick option B. If I want a compiler, I choose one that's already written.

Dale

 

[The Great Apple]

I know slight resurrection has gone on, but who cares?

I'd definitely go for Specialist Stacker - no loss of info, just condensed into a more manageable form.

I'm not sure about the game clock mods - I can't remember which my rather mangled version of CvMainInterface.py uses, however I'm not a fan of the standard game clock - not enough info and lots of wasted space.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Yeah, I would personally prefer that they focus on incorporating existing interface mods, and then turn their attention to cool new features for the Civ4 community, rather than focus all their attention on us modders .

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Paasky]

The Lopez' Dead Civs removal mod: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=167023

Ok, it's nice to see how many civs you've destroyed, but they don't have much use. And I believe the dead civs are removed from the diploscreen too, aren't they?

 

[Jaythekiller]

JtK:

And how would you compile it? Not trying to put a dampner on the idea, but would you prefer Firaxis to only work on a compiler for modders for the next 3 years rather than an expansion pack with new/more stuff? I pick option B. If I want a compiler, I choose one that's already written.

Dale

I was talkin about an"in-game"editor & I don't think it will take so much time to make it
It's a realy boring to have to edit so much XML stuff just to modify some civ names or other very simple text entries

 

[Zetetic Apparat]

I can't imagine that a Civ IV-specific XML editor for stuff like that would hard for a 3rd party to code ; there are plenty of XML libraries (so the hard part of parsing and rewriting is done) for whatever language you want to write it in and the schemas are well-documented enough.

How about just integrating a more helpful event manager like Elmer Jiggle's?