War Carts

[Dactyl]

How long are Sumerian war carts viable options? I've used them very early with success, but the AI civs get horsemen pretty quickly, and that's the end of the story. I upgrade them to knights, but that takes a long time. Any suggestions on their best use?

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Very early conquest. I once declared war on Spain 2 turns after meeting them, right after my very first donkey (and the first unit I created, about turn 10), just to capture a Builder. I built 3 more and easily conquered Madrid. A few more and Russia was gone too (though that time there were some 3 Archers).

 

[Archaelicos]

I'm playing a Sumaria game now, I took out Spain, Norway, Tomyris, and Trajan with 3 War Carts and 2 Archers. They were pretty viable even against ancient walls, especially with battering ram. Struggled a bit against Horsemen (Tomyris had a ton of course) but otherwise rolled through everybody.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

War Carts are the optimal unit at turn 1, at any game speed. They are immune to anti-cavalry units, can be built starting turn 1, move 3 (4 when starting in flat terrain). Two of them can take out a very early Diety level AI City. Or one War Cart and three Slingers. Or one War Cart and two Archers. Add (1-2) War Carts and (1-3) Archers to handle later pre-Wall Cities.

Upgrade War Carts to Knights via civic Mercenaries and the Professional Army policy (-50% gold for upgrades).

War Carts will continue to be valuable via this means of upgrading them.

 

[ProphetMaster]

How long are Sumerian war carts viable options? I've used them very early with success, but the AI civs get horsemen pretty quickly, and that's the end of the story. I upgrade them to knights, but that takes a long time. Any suggestions on their best use?

I play Gilgamesh exclusively. Use the War Carts to take over the continent from the start. Go to Mercenaries to get the cheap upgrade, and then promote them to Knights. The Knights later promote to Tanks with lots of experience points to boot. I just won a Domination game at Emperor with this approach. I just tried my first Immortal game, and got wiped out by Pikemen in the Medieval era. But I did manage to destroy the French before that happened. There is a HUGE difficulty jump from Emperor to Immortal. It is very difficult.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Well done, ProphetMaster!

Perhaps you were unlucky in your Immortal game or made some mistake unknowingly. You will need a strong research focus on building several early Campus districts to keep ahead of the AIs in research on Deity for example. I'm not sure whether that is required on Immortal level, but it probably is.

 

[ProphetMaster]

Well done, ProphetMaster!

Perhaps you were unlucky in your Immortal game or made some mistake unknowingly. You will need a strong research focus on building several early Campus districts to keep ahead of the AIs in research on Deity for example. I'm not sure whether that is required on Immortal level, but it probably is.

I just won at Immortal with a Science victory. I did not build any early campus districts. Instead, I spammed Warcarts and took over whole continent except a couple city states I need for trades. That is also what I have done at lower levels. With the largest empire (by a mile), you will eventually overtake them on tech score. Big population creates a lot of science points even without a bunch of science buildings. Then, when you are getting 1,000 gold per turn in the late game, you can just buy the great scientists and engineers to boost the techs for the space race. The production speed of the cities is the limiting factor. I built 3 spaceports, but I think 2 great ones is better than 3 average ones (i.e., less than 100 hammers per turn). I still have not figured out that problem. Getting electricity to the factory ASAP plus lots of international trade routes to good production cities (5 to 7 hammers per turn) will get you over 100/turn production, which can build a project in less than 20 turns. I would like to find a way to get it faster, though. I could tech the whole tech tree before the last piece of the Mars launch was done. I have not tried this yet on Deity. Ghandi was my only problem. He fell short of a Religion victory.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

I can get by using only one Spaceport. Basically, use Kwolek and Sagan (in that sequence). It'll be enough for all space parts (though you still need 1 turn producing them). I usually hard build the first 2 projects, though, but I use a city with lots of mines, all trade routes from that city and all possible bonuses. I usually manage to build the first one in 5 turns if the terrain is good enough, and the second in 10 turns.

 

[ProphetMaster]

Very early conquest. I once declared war on Spain 2 turns after meeting them, right after my very first donkey (and the first unit I created, about turn 10), just to capture a Builder. I built 3 more and easily conquered Madrid. A few more and Russia was gone too (though that time there were some 3 Archers).

I did something similar in this game. Arabia declared on a city state very quickly. I sent all my Warcarts over there, waited until just before the city fell, declared on it myself and took it in one turn, then declared immediately on Arabia while his warriors were still damaged from the siege. Just make sure you tech Masonry and get a battering ram by the time you reach his capital, because he will have Ancient Walls by then. I don't know whether this is possible with any other leaders....The Warcarts are just awesome in the Ancient era! I usually beeline to Feudalism from there to get my Warcarts promoted to Knights (after getting to Mercenaries civic, it only costs 95 gold to upgrade them). Then I take out the next civ (look for somebody who does not have Horses or Iron). The Warcarts promote nicely to Tanks for late game city defenses when you are going for the Science win (or further conquests if you want Domination win). The strategy works fine, either way. In fact, I am ready to try a different leader. Without Warcarts, I imagine it would be much tougher at Immoral or Deity.

 

[ProphetMaster]

I can get by using only one Spaceport. Basically, use Kwolek and Sagan (in that sequence). It'll be enough for all space parts (though you still need 1 turn producing them). I usually hard build the first 2 projects, though, but I use a city with lots of mines, all trade routes from that city and all possible bonuses. I usually manage to build the first one in 5 turns if the terrain is good enough, and the second in 10 turns.

I will try that next time. I had a total of 30 trade routes and split them among the 3 cities building Spaceports. The last one turned out to be pretty much useless.

 

[Forbiddentwo]

How do you guys handle the situation when your war carts are off conquering horsehockey, you don't have the gold income to build more, and barbarian horsemen (sans the early game rebuff) start spawning on the other side of your territory?

Even if you rush back your carts are outmatched...

 

[KmDubya]

How do you guys handle the situation when your war carts are off conquering ****, you don't have the gold income to build more, and barbarian horsemen (sans the early game rebuff) start spawning on the other side of your territory?

Even if you rush back your carts are outmatched...

Just make some cheap scouts and post them on hills to clear the fog back so they don't spawn and send a horde in the same turn.

You'll have some troops behind for home defense anyway unless there are no civs that can reach you other than through your conquering army.

 

[diamond geezer]

My approach was just to keep building war carts and expand through conquering rather than building my own cities - I think I only built one Settler the whole game, although I captured a few. Build enough units and even when the AI gets horsemen they won't attack and you can wait until you get Knights...

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

How do you guys handle the situation when your war carts are off conquering ****, you don't have the gold income to build more, and barbarian horsemen (sans the early game rebuff) start spawning on the other side of your territory?

Even if you rush back your carts are outmatched...

Archers are reasonably cheap and you can place them inside your cities so they chip away their health. Build enough of them and focus fire, and maybe only 1 or 2 will get injured. If the situation is bad enough, I might consider a couple Spearmen as meat shields. Use the 50% discount card for melee and ranged units while building them, and later the card to reduce gold maintenance of your troops by 1 (making Archers maintenance-free).

Still, it's better to prevent this kind of thing. Destroy any camp you might have spotted before conquering your neighbour. It gives some early precious gold and some sweet experience for your troops.

 

[ProphetMaster]

How do you guys handle the situation when your war carts are off conquering ****, you don't have the gold income to build more, and barbarian horsemen (sans the early game rebuff) start spawning on the other side of your territory?

Even if you rush back your carts are outmatched...

I just tried my first Deity game. I took out the barb huts right off the bat to give my WC's some promotion points and to get the barbs under control. That was okay, But then I made a strategic blunder by not waiting to see which city state to attack. You have to do what I did in my last game....namely, wait for an AI to attack a city state and then time your entry to take it in one turn after the AI has done all the heavy lifting to weaken it. Then go after the AI but make sure you have your battering ram ready to go. I think success may depend on luck of the draw in starting position. In this game, she has two horse pastures very quickly, so could build Horsemen. They can take 39 hit points, so it probably won't work unless I can pillage one of her horse pastures with a WC to even the odds. I will reload and see what happens.

 

[greygamer]

Well as Sumeria get Epic Quests it might pay off to leave a war cart behind on camp duty

 

[Dactyl]

I've played the Sumerians some. The war carts can be devastating. However, it all depends on the map. You need a lot of flat land without forests so that you can exploit your mobility. I had a Sumeria start where my city was in the middle of a rain forest. That did not go well.

 

[ProphetMaster]

I've played the Sumerians some. The war carts can be devastating. However, it all depends on the map. You need a lot of flat land without forests so that you can exploit your mobility. I had a Sumeria start where my city was in the middle of a rain forest. That did not go well.

That's true. If you can run trade route through the rainforest, that helps.

 

[baboon]

Atleast the war carts make decent defenders once they are obsolete because of their speed.

 

[malitano]

Any thoughts on countering war carts when Sumeria starts real close in multiplayer? I tried to do it last night as Japan beelined bronze working then archery had an encampment I still got overwhelmed. I didn't even get enough time to build a wall.

I wonder if ignoring everything except slingers and upgrading them archers asap would be more effective.