War!!!! How is supposed to be a 4x!!!

[Lazy sweeper]

It's 1942. I'm Bismark. We have just obtained the Panzer!
We are behind the other three major civs by one era...
Sumer has just attacked the Maya who ran out of oil and can't build tanks any more, nor bombers...
The Maya are the closest to Space victory... but lost five cities in two turns and can't retaliate.
They are begging us for some oil but we need it for our Panzers and armies...

It's 1955. We got four Panzer Armies and the Persians are going to attack next turn...
They have computers and we still have to learn Fascism...
We need to hit first... We got Washington!
They hit back... we lose three minor cities... they had no railroads...
Our Armies are bombarded from Air raids... they are in bad shape, but resists...
We are outnumbered three to one, with only our mighty Panzer, whilst they all have already
the Internet... and very close to Advanced Armor tank...

I'm playing Civ III Immortal... this is bloody difficult...
The start was heroic, one Archer got Tenochtitlan and Salamanca, forming an army of
ONE archer, and we have survived untill now...

There are four civs left, and soon, there will be only two...
This is a bloody game!!! Where every road counts!!!

Moderator Action: Removed all the off topic stuff that doesn't apply to CivIII. Please keep your post civil and on topic. leif

 

[vmxa]

What is the level of the game? Is it modified? Panzer's are not going to be so great at the stage, where modern armor and bombers are around. Not to mention mechs.

You are in a stage, where all land is taken, so it will be war, war, war. Democracy is not good for war, unless you have lots of lux and will be able to end the war fairly quick.

In the mean time, you have some less than optimal city builds, even, if at peace. Size 1 making a uni, is nuts. It should not even have a lib to be able to build a uni. You are in a war and that place will not ever make enough beakers to justify a uni. The game will end, before it could.

Size 4 building a cath? No reason to even build them, there are better ways to get happiness. They take too long and too many shields. Mobilize and put cities on military stuff.

 

[tjs282]

Do you have an actual question?

AFAIK, the 4th "X" has always stood for "eXterminate" — and according to your description and screenies, your game has long since reached that stage.

You are in a stage, where all land is taken, so it will be war, war, war.

They have computers and we still have to learn Fascism...

Why (on earth) did you go for Fascism?

If you really needed a warmaking government at this stage — especially on a Huge (16-Civ) map — Commie would usually be a way better option, AFAIK.

I'm playing Civ III Immortal... this is bloody difficult...

???

"Immortal" is not a difficulty-level in (unmodded) Civ III. Do you mean Demigod?

Our Armies are bombarded from Air raids... they are in bad shape, but resists...

Put 4 Flaks under each Army, and the AI-Bombers will then (probably) leave them alone. Probably.

There are four civs left, and soon, there will be only two...

I can still see 6 colours on your powergraph screenie, and 5 AI-leaderheads on your Foreign Advisor screenie. Are those both now out of date?

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Why (on earth) did you go for Fascism?

If you really needed a warmaking government at this stage — especially on a Huge (16-Civ) map — Commie would usually be a way better option, AFAIK.???

Is it desirable to change governments prior to deliberately war-making? I've pretty much stayed with Republic once I get it. (In fact, I can rarely get ahold of Fascism anyway - no one wants to sell it, and I don't want to waste resources researching it. Communism I can usually buy.)

 

[tjs282]

Is it desirable to change governments prior to deliberately war-making? I've pretty much stayed with Republic once I get it.

The bolded is indeed usually the preferable course of action, certainly at the difficulty levels that I'm most familiar with (Monarch–Emp).

In the OP's game, I wouldn't even have researched/ switched to Demo in the first place, never mind researching yet another optional just to switch again. At this late stage, on this second (or third?) switch, they will most likely lose another 9 turns in Anarchy (since the Civ3 Germans aren't Religious).

Frankly, if that (and the things noted by @vmxa above) is typical of the way the game has been played so far, it's hardly surprising that the Germans are behind in the tech-race. Actually, if the OP really is playing at DG, the fact that they are still alive is fairly impressive in itself.

 

[vmxa]

I saw that he said Immortal, which is a civ 4 difficulty. I double checked the screenies to see, if it was Civ 3. My guess is it is Regent as it would be hard to stay in the game this late, with the builds/tactics being used on DG. I would prefer to be in Monarchy in his place as the WW and units support would be less burdensome. His empire is not large enough to go commie.

Researching optional techs is fine for an easy game like EMP, but can make it rough above that. Demo requires several optional techs, that will prevent you from getting to the next age and some key techs for too long. Wish he had posted a save, rather than screen shots.

A lot of players do not look at the gains you can get from making lots of trades. It is a great way to get back in the race during the first two ages, after that probably conquest and not much trading. Ah, but I prefer to play AW anyway. Struggling players could look at some of the training SG's and gain of lot of useful
information. They are actually interesting to read.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

The bolded is indeed usually the preferable course of action, certainly at the difficulty levels that I'm most familiar with (Monarch–Emp).

Last I played was at Monarch, but it's been a while since I've had time to play. I try to keep up, though, for next time I can really dig in.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Why (on earth) did you go for Fascism?

I probably was better off with Monarchy, but was too much behind in tech....

If you really needed a warmaking government at this stage — especially on a Huge (16-Civ) map — Commie would usually be a way better option, AFAIK.???

Better culture swap resistance for Fascism?

"Immortal" is not a difficulty-level in (unmodded) Civ III. Do you mean Demigod?

DG, yes. The one below deity. Which I could win only one with Rome.

I can still see 6 colours on your powergraph screenie, and 5 AI-leaderheads on your Foreign Advisor screenie. Are those both now out of date?

Greece and Ottomans are islands nations far behind in tech, and probably the only option left to win. If I could manage to survive the gov-anarchy and get a defence alliance going before being wiped out by the Persians... I still haven't got Flaks...

Last I played was at Monarch, but it's been a while since I've had time to play. I try to keep up, though, for next time I can really dig in.

Demigod

Do you have an actual question?

Why can't civ VI put up a challenge like this?

What is the level of the game?

Size 4 building a cath? No reason to even build them, there are better ways to get happiness. They take too long and too many shields. Mobilize and put cities on military stuff.

Level DG, just below maximum difficulty.
Bonn needs desperately that square to allow for a road, it's border expansion on a contested tile, not happiness I'm after there...

 

[vmxa]

Hi sweeper,
I am not sure if the game you are playing is Conquest or not or some mod. Vanilla did not have DG and C3C (conquest) has Deity and Sid levels above DG.

Cath are 160 shields and uni is 200 (depending on traits). Bonn is likely very corrupt, unless you spent even more shields and time to built courthouse and even then it will be a low net shield town.

26 turns to go and how many already passed? 89 turns to go for the uni. It is not unreasonable to suspect you won't even be able to hold those towns, given their (AI) cheap unit cost.

AI pays 140 for the uni and 112 for a cath on DG. You cannot afford to put those things in far flung towns that cannot really use them. That uni will yield no net beakers in a totally corrupt town.

Trying to fix the corruption is another expensive task in terms of time and shields. If you must have a border pop, use a temple or a lib, whichever is cheaper for your civ. Forget happiness,
turn pop in scientist or taxmen, depending on what you need.

To road you have to protect workers with units that are needed to protect towns or other units.

GL, it looks like an interesting game.

 

[Quintillus]

Why can't civ VI put up a challenge like this?

For all its flaws, the AI is more competent in Civ III.

My understanding is that the AI never really got halfway decent at handling the one-unit-per-tile (1 UPT) restriction in Civ V, and that didn't get improved in Civ VI either (from what I've read, the AI is generally regarded as worse in VI than in V, while V was a major step down in AI from IV; IV is generally regarded as a better AI than III, and quite possibly the high point for AI in the series, especially if Civ IV AI mods are considered). Indeed, I don't think I've ever lost a city to the AI in Civ V, even when severely neglecting defenses. I can't say the same about the earlier games.

I've played III the most, but I'm not sure I've ever won a standard game above Emperor. Maybe once on Demigod? With the AI bonuses and the general semi-competency (there are major shortcomings, but no handicaps like 1UPT in V/VI), the bonuses the AI receives above Monarch make it quite challenging for most players, even many veterans, particularly if you aren't playing specifically to take the most advantage of the AI's shortcomings.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

For all its flaws, the AI is more competent in Civ III.

My understanding is that the AI never really got halfway decent at handling the one-unit-per-tile (1 UPT) restriction in Civ V, and that didn't get improved in Civ VI either (from what I've read, the AI is generally regarded as worse in VI than in V, while V was a major step down in AI from IV; IV is generally regarded as a better AI than III, and quite possibly the high point for AI in the series, especially if Civ IV AI mods are considered). Indeed, I don't think I've ever lost a city to the AI in Civ V, even when severely neglecting defenses. I can't say the same about the earlier games.

I've played III the most, but I'm not sure I've ever won a standard game above Emperor. Maybe once on Demigod? With the AI bonuses and the general semi-competency (there are major shortcomings, but no handicaps like 1UPT in V/VI), the bonuses the AI receives above Monarch make it quite challenging for most players, even many veterans, particularly if you aren't playing specifically to take the most advantage of the AI's shortcomings.

Up to CIV IV Ai had basically only 4 movement choices for most of land units, 12 for horses. with the swap to Hex, the math went up, furthermore now land units got 2mov, and horses 4mov points, giving 20 choices for foots, and 54 for horses! Ai got overtaken by all this mov points choices. Civ IV with mods is hardcore, I've never got a win above Monarch... I prefer CIII bc of loading times, and simplicity, over cIV, then Berserker are amphibious units...Conquistadores are terrain free... I prefer CivIII units balance overall. And getting an Early Egyptian Chariots Army or Roman Praetorian Army is still way easier in CivIII and that makes so much difference for early enjoying of the game.... I could beat the Sid difficulty once with Rome, and beat the game many times at Demigod... just not this one... Persians got the upper hand here... but this is the point: Losing is fun! Btw, if I could concentrate all of my armies to Persia capital, destry the city, and then move to the other cities with oil, I could probably still win this game, just very, very improbable. Persia was strong all throughout the game. I resisted early Persian Immortal armies from Antiquity and could never ever capture a single city of them and got a couple of mine razed! Crippled but still alive... an honorable second place... or fourth... tuff endgame...

 

[jarred!]

Up to CIV IV Ai had basically only 4 movement choices for most of land units, 12 for horses. with the swap to Hex, the math went up, furthermore now land units got 2mov, and horses 4mov points, giving 20 choices for foots, and 54 for horses!

In civ3 each tile has 8 adjacent tiles, how does this translate to 4 movement choices? Hexes have 6 adjacent tiles, wouldn't that be 36 movement choices for a 2-move unit?

 

[vorlon_mi]

Almost. In Civ 3 and Civ 4, with rectangle tiles, a 1-move unit has 8 choices (3x3 square, minus 1 for the center). A 2-move unit has 24 choices (5x5 square, minus 1 for the center). Some might be blocked by terrain, but none are blocked by another unit.

In Civ 5 and Civ 6, with hex tiles, a 1-move unit has 6 choices. A 2-move unit has 12 choices, as the radius goes outward. Some might be blocked by terrain, but some might be blocked by another unit (1UPT).

 

[jarred!]

Almost. In Civ 3 and Civ 4, with rectangle tiles, a 1-move unit has 8 choices (3x3 square, minus 1 for the center). A 2-move unit has 24 choices (5x5 square, minus 1 for the center). Some might be blocked by terrain, but none are blocked by another unit.

In Civ 5 and Civ 6, with hex tiles, a 1-move unit has 6 choices. A 2-move unit has 12 choices, as the radius goes outward. Some might be blocked by terrain, but some might be blocked by another unit (1UPT).

Lazy sweeper was talking about movement choices the AI has, which definitely should include the center and should treat different paths that end on the same tile as separate. That's 64 for tiles and 36 for hexes for a 2-move unit. With 4 moves you get 6*6*6*6 which is 1296 possible movement choices.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Could you post your save file? This would be quite a fun game to have a go with myself!