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War weariness impacting unit supply too higher than war weariness?

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Raider, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Raider

    Raider Chieftain

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    I am currently in a game where I am at war with the Huns. Now my empire is happy, and unhappiness due to war weariness is 9. Ok so far so good.

    HOWEVER, war weariness that's decreasing my unit supply is 21, which is much higher than my actual war weariness. What's happening there? My unit supply is down to 8 despite large population and barracks in all cities. And we've been at war for 15-20 turns max.
     
  2. YukiN

    YukiN Chieftain

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    The Huns' UA in VP allows them to inflict increased war weariness against their opponents, and as you are experiencing that is quite powerful.

    War weariness' impact on supply is as a % reduction from your usual unit cap. You can hover over the unit supply to see precisely how much that is for you.

    War weariness in VP is not calculated by turns but by actual combat. Taking damage, losing units and losing cities all increase war weariness. This is to prevent war-weariness from declarations (often due due to diplomatic actions) with no follow-up. The party inflicting war-weariness also gets 50% of that same war-weariness. This is to ensure that ever successful war-mongers can't wage war forever.
     
  3. Raider

    Raider Chieftain

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    So the difference between actual war weariness (-9 only) and the war weariness decreasing unit supply (-21 almost 2.5x as much) is designed? I am supposed to have TWO separate war weariness numbers?

    Also, reading the description, it says "Friendly and Enemy War Weariness modified by 50%." Ok, that's fine... So how come my Supply Cap war weariness is closing in on 2.5x as much???

    Cuz currently, I my war weariness is holding steady, but every turn my supply war weariness goes up by 1, even though I have positive war score, have one of their cities and don't lose units... That seems weirdly punishing. He's the one who lost the war, lost a city, is losing units, but I cannot push on because I am down to almost no units with no ability to make more.

    And my upgrade costs skyrocketed as well.

    This seems like one of the instances where Vox Populi goes... "oh hey, you are winning? Well, let's introduce this artificial thing to stop you from winning". It's ridiculous that I can't do anything to a civ 1/3 my size and multiple techs behind because I randomly can't make units and they refuse peace.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
    BiteInTheMark, Minh Le and vyyt like this.
  4. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Warlord

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    Yeah, supply cap reductions have been greater than happiness reductions for as long as I can remember. Its effect is amplified harder because you happen to be fighting the Huns, and this is exactly what they're designed to do.
     
  5. Raider

    Raider Chieftain

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    "Yeah, supply cap reductions have been greater than happiness reductions for as long as I can remember"

    I guess that makes sense then. Seemed like a really silly situation.
     
  6. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    War weariness does act weird in this patch. Im playing a domination game right now and its really weird, my unit supply is reduced much faster than before.
    92.jpg
    I almost have no Unit Supply left but I have little Happiness problem. I dont think this is normal.
     
  7. Tzar Sasha

    Tzar Sasha Tzar of Nowheresville

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    Remember that happiness was adjusted in recent patches. Because of those changes happiness may drop in a nicer curve with war weariness while supply does not.
     
  8. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    Unit supply is decreasing much faster compared to previous patch. I think I played enough game to feel the difference :).
     
  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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  10. Bhawb

    Bhawb Chieftain

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    Definitely confirm what others have said. Was playing Rome earlier and had huge war weariness supply penalties despite not being at war for very long and only having killed maybe 10 units (lost 1-2). I almost exclusively play warmongers and this is a new issue as far as supply goes.
     
  11. YukiN

    YukiN Chieftain

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    Hi G, I personally think current war weariness is fine, but just to confirm, what is the intended behaviour? Code is fine.
     
  12. Raider

    Raider Chieftain

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    This was my exact situation as well. I had a huge happy empire, I was attacked. But after about 20 turns of a successful defensive war, where I took a city, my nation was crippled with unit supply that went from 30+ down to 7, making any kind of war or production effort not viable. Not to mention that my upgrade costs went through the roof. So I couldn't make new units or upgrade existing ones. This again, in a successful large, +30 happy empire.

    The whole situation just seemed weird to me and completely counter-realistic. If this scenario were to unfold in real life, the US in WWII, instead of experiencing a huge production boom that led it out of the aftermath of the Great Recession, would have seen its production shrink as soon as it mobilized. All the while its citizens would be happily cheering their leaders names. And USSR, would be able to field a single tractor to fight the invading Germans. Countries support larger, not smaller military in war time. Sure, they can be unhappy and that can cause problems, but inability to support even a modest military for a happy empire is just weird.
     
  13. Raider

    Raider Chieftain

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    Where is the code that controls impact of war weariness on unit supply?
     
  14. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    I can confirm the cap reduction in the recent version is a bit extreme. Iam no warmonger, didnt go often activ for wars, but for sure very often defensive wars. But the cap reduction is far too strong. It doesnt change that much in the first turns, but I had turns were WW increased by 8-12%. In one turn. And I know now, the maximum WW is 75%.
    I know we need some adjustments to the domination victory, but this way is a very unfun solution. The same as the new UA of the Huns.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  15. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    Maybe this can be true for this version, but the last month releases, wars could be prolonged for too long. Maybe you expect to enter a fight and don't stop until you've got your prize. That's not the way. Either pick an easy prey or prepare for a few short wars where you promote your units while killing AI units, until your army is far more experienced and you can roll over the AI.

    About the Huns UA specifically, how can a player counter this ability? I guess you need to increase supply as much as possible in the first place. Citadels over great generals. Military wonders over any other ones. Then you need sturdy units in the front and protect your weaker ones very well, you don't want your units to receive lots of damage.

    But maybe it is just this release that could be bugged.
     
  16. andersw

    andersw Chieftain

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  17. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    I can deal with the permanent AI attacks, even if Iam very underpowered. In most cases I doesnt lose a single unit and can bite back a bit, forcing a peace deal.
    But an enemy which can deal me more damage WW wise than himself by permanently dying makes absolutly no sense. Its already hard to explain why I should get that amount of WW by killing enemies, but getting much more against huns cant be explained in any way in real world.
    This UA is even more stupid, cause it didnt needs any effort to get it, even worse, you get rewarded in the case of sucking.
    What happens if I go authority and autocraty with both 25% WW reduction, together with the WW reduction of 50% by their UA? Is it multplicativly and I land with only 28% WW for dying and my enemy get 75%? Or is it additiv and I never get any WW cause of 100% reduction?
    What will happen if a huns AI refuses to peace out, if he send initally 30% more units towards you, produces twice as much thanks to cost reduction and deals you 50% more WW than to himself, even all his units die?
     
    andersw likes this.
  18. nekokon

    nekokon Chieftain

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    I simply counter their UA by avoiding killing units and focus on pillaging instead.
    Not killing enemy units still allow my army to level up, force them to back off to heal (which take much longer than buying new units), keep my WW low enough, keep their units low enough so that I can freely roam and pillage, etc... It's very effective in defensive war.
    When on the offensive it's better to just blitz a city or 2 then hold them until a peace deal is available. Killing units whenever you can is no longer the preferred choice.

    That's why I always always always take god of protection every single game, but please don't tell G :mischief:
     
  19. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    I never pick it, so it's ok :p
     
  20. civplayer33

    civplayer33 Chieftain

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    @Gazebo Can I assume this issue was fixed after the 11-30-18 version (last Hotfix version of 11-21-18) as per this GitHub issue?
    It's not just the continuously reducing supply cap despite reaching the 75% threshold but also the continuously reducing supply cap from Tech Level despite me not researching any new techs in the meantime.
    If you want I can post it under GitHub as well; I just don't have the time to test this with the newest version.

    War_Weariness.jpg
     

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