War weariness while the same religion??

[Jungle Cat]

My brother thinks that if we both have the same relegion, the civ with the most relegious population doesn't have unhappiness caused by the same relegion, when you are at war.

The bigger the difference, the bigger the unhappiness.

I never heared about this? Can anyone back this up?

 

[Monkeyfinger]

If you're at war, you get extra unhappiness in every city that contains your opponent's state religion, even if you're following a different state religion.

 

[Jungle Cat]

If you're at war, you get extra unhappiness in every city that contains your opponent's state religion, even if you're following a different state religion.

I know about this. But according to my brother, you don't get unhappiness when you have the most relegious population of your state relegion. (if you only have 1 relegion)

ex if you have 60% of the relegious population of a certain relegion then you will not get unhapiness if you are at war with someone of the same relegion.

But I don't know if this is right? I never read or heard about this.

 

[Grantor]

I don't know about the extra war weariness you get from religion, but most WW is caused by having your own troops outside of your borders for too long. At least that's how I understand it. So there will be some base number accruing regardless of religion.

 

[Emptiness]

They aren't actually talking about war weariness, they're talking about the unhappiness penalty for fighting a civ that follows a religion present in one of your cities. It shows up as "We will not fight with our brothers and sisters of the faith!", rather than "War, what is it good for?" (which is actual war weariness).

 

[WCH]

Why not test it in worldbuilder and then report your findings?

 

[Jungle Cat]

Why not test it in worldbuilder and then report your findings?

I just tried it out.The more population you have in your city the more unhapiness you have.
10population= 1unhapiness 14population= 2 unhapiness. (" We will not fight with our brothers....")

So my brother wasn't right at all, like I assumed.

 

[Milaga]

Let me start by saying that what I am about to write are just observations on gameplay and what I've seen in the code. I am not positive that this is exactly how the game behaves, but I think it's pretty close.

War Weariness is not FfH-specific. It is an absolute number (like the absolute Armageddon counter.) The only time it increases is when you lose a unit to a civ you are at war with. I think the amount the weariness counter increases has to do with the relative strength of the unit lost. This weariness number is then divided by an arbitrary war tolerance number and applied to all of your cities to create a % of weariness.

There are civics and buildings that adjust your weariness. If your civ has the City States civic, for example, you will have a +25% war in each city. Each weariness point counts 25% more. For each city that has a dungeon (-25% war ) this penalty will be negated.

The weariness % becomes an unhappy citizen (rounded down) under the listing of "War, what is it good for?". For example, if you have 10% war weariness in a size 9 city you will have no unhappiness. Once the city increases to size 10, it will have one unhappy citizen. If the city size becomes 20, or the war weariness becomes 20% then you'll have two unhappy citizens.

If you are at war with multiple civs, all of the weariness is added together to determine unhappy citizens. Weariness only comes into play when you are at war. If you sign a peace treaty you will not suffer happiness penalties (nor religious war penalties) and your weariness will decrease slowly over time.

The "We will not fight with our brothers..." happiness modifier is completely different than the "War..." modifier. I believe it has to do with the % of people in a city that follow a certain religion. If you are at war with a civ that follows a certain religion, a certain % of all of your citizens who follow that religion will become unhappy. Each of your cities that has this religion in it will be effected depending on how many citizens in the city worship under that religion. I think there is a leader-specific religious tolerance factor that comes into play as I see this penalty more often with some leaders than others.

 

[SilverKnight]

The only time it increases is when you lose a unit to a civ you are at war with. I think the amount the weariness counter increases has to do with the relative strength of the unit lost.

THAT would suck big-time for me, since one of my more common strategies is to wear down a city's defenders with mana-pumped elemental summons that often die in combat. So I retain WW from a unit I had just created out of thin air? I hope there's a fix for this if such is the case...

SilverKnight

 

[Monkeyfinger]

No, no, this is how WW works.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=181512

Written for the unmodded game but FfH didn't change it.

Basically anything you do in enemy territory gives you a little WW. Yes, even summons add to it.

 

[Fafnir13]

Snipped some important bits:

Your unit attacks their unit=+3 if you lose, +1 if you win
Their unit attacks your unit =+2 (win or lose)
You capture a unit=+1
Your unit is captured=+2
You capture a city=+6
You launch a nuke=+12 (WW regardless of culture)
You are hit with a Nuke=+3 (WW regardless of culture... this is for All players hit by the nuke)

Anyways, I've long felt that WW is the most out of place concept in this mod. The forces of evil shouldn't be calling a time out because their population is upset that the enemy is being slaughtered. I find the WW from capturing cities especially galling. A major victory occurs and your people get madder at you? Very strange.
To really make it work in FFH, WW gains ought to have some dependence on alignment. Perhaps it is fitting for Good civs to grow weary of slaughtering the enemy. They would actually bother to think about the suffering of people on the opposing side. Evil civs would not, probably going so far as to lose WW whenever they kill an enemy.
Also, going off of the nuke function, I'm gathering that WW effects could be tied to unit types. Undead units seem ripe for this effect. I've always thought it strange that death mana, supposedly a thing of great evil, can be used so freely by everyone. Good civs would probably gain additional WW whenever they attack with undead. Destroying enemy undead would have the opposite effect, losing WW as the good people rejoice at the destruction of abominations. Other WW effects could be worked up for angels, demons, and so forth as appropriate (assuming it was even possible).
It would also be nice if WW could be tied to the specific type of unit that dies. Perhaps it would be too much to ask of the game, but losing a swordsman shouldn't have the same effect as losing Meshabber of Dis. Consider the effect in the modern world of losing an aircraft carrier vs a striker brigade. At the very least, seeing summoned units made exempt from generating WW for their owners would be good.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[Milaga]

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like I was close but was missing a lot of the causes. In my games I almost always started seeing a high weariness after a long war where I had lost a lot of fodder units weakening city defenses.

WW was designed for unmodded Civ where there isn't really the concept of an evil civilization. It still is a pretty abstract term and can include many things such as:
* Protests/Strikes
* Workers sabotaging production
* Inferior/Inadequate resources available due to an ongoing war
* Refugees from the warzone causing confusion or discontent
* Increasing sentiment that while the war was justified and the gains were worth it, ongoing conflict would no longer be so

Most of these can easily apply to evil civs. WW is supposed to represent the fact that continually waging war will cause things to slow down on the homefront as resources are diverted to killing things instead of building granaries.

There are exceptions to this in history, yes. There are also civs that are exceptions to this. But for the most part, I feel it's good mechanic.

 

[Doug Piranha]

Yes, even summons add to it.

I was sure I'd seen something different, but Monkeyfinger usually knows what he's talking about, so I did a quick worldbuilder test, dropping two death 2 vampires next to Falamar's starting city. I summoned two skeletons, then two spectres. Attacking with the spectres and losing didn't increase the war weariness displayed on mouseover of Falamar's score, but attacking with the skeletons and vampires did (win or lose). Once one of the spectres hit the jackpot and won at 4% odds, and that *did* increase the war weariness.

My conclusion after this quick test: losing non-permanent summons doesn't affect war weariness.

 

[Milaga]

But winning with non-permanent summons will. Interesting.