Warhammer Fantasy Battles Mod Brainstorm Thread

[Arexack_heretic]

I meant not to exclude building-ladders with SR prereq entirely, include as an exception.
For example the chaos factions would be excellent candidates for fierce rivalry between factions and increased efficiacy if a city specialises in one type.

example
A city has the chaos CR. 30%Khorne, 1%Tzeenth, 5%Nurgle, 10% Slaanesh (Tzeenth and the major SR Khorne are antagonistic so 1%extra is unhappy or even rebelious) as a polutant 2% is Sigmarite. the rest are atheist or multheist.

The player can build Chaos totem -> Bloodaltar -> Khorne Temple at 100% cost.
Also a player could build the other SR buildings, but at 200% cost because they are not the major cult.
Once a spe3cific building is built, antagonistic SR buildings can no longer be constructed.
The city cannot build a sigmarite shrine, because that belongs to another pantheon (CR) altogether.

When monotheism is the civic of choice or the flavour of the CR, a city can only have one deity. (or even one deity for the entire civ.)


edit: ah that was not the quote....
If you are going to exlude SR-specific buildings, ladders for them would be defunct too.
You lose alot of flavour and gameplay validity without SR-specifics, I think.

A subsititution might be SR wonders, that can only be built in a city containing the SR, and only when CR building of level II is present.
examples:
-Clan Moulder Moulding Pits: enables creation of Rattus Giganticus units.
-Clan Skryre Lightmagic Accumulator: Lightmagic cataclysm rends through the roots of the world and rips it apart. Razes 50% of all cities on continent (including own), creates tunnelroutes between all cities. (Can only be built once, like all wonders)

edit2:
What I meant with a ladder is more for arcane-tech flavoured SR, additions to libraries and universities etc. Or replacements thereof. Some civs may not have access to universities and such in their human form and may need science-SR to get them their equivalents.

 

[Masada]

@Arexack_heretic ah the complexity... i mean that would be insanely complex.. i just prefered a -1 unhappiness for each different sub religion from the same major faith and say -2 unhappiness to -4 unhappiness maybe for sub religions that are not from the same major faith..

Oh and the god of atheism in Warhammer is a chaos god one of the 4 that the other chaos gods got rid of... that really old school canon... so atheism is looked down upon by Sigmarite Templars and other religous figures...

And i agree with Psychic_Llamas there are problems with a state sub religion..

and ummm ere inquistions should be changed to forced conversions to more PC (Helen Clark standards *cough cough* )

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

@masada: i like your idea in your last post having -1 happyness for each different sub religion in the city from the same CR, but make it -1 happyness for every building. (eg if a city has an Altar, Temple and Cathedral from the Khaine SR, and then builds and altar and temple of the Ind SR in the same city, that city gets -2 happyness, one for each pair of competeing SR.) maybe this would deter people from building multiple SR in a single city. i also like the idea of having -3 happyness for the presence of a non state CR's SR in a city too.
this could work. ill be interested to see what Olleus has to say. maybe he has a better idea. (hint hint )

@ masada: i agree that a player should first remove all of a SR buildings before a CR can be removed.
also the way i was thinking of inquisitors working is not to have a special unit called an 'inquisitor' but just to give all high priests the 'inquisition' or 'purge heathens' ability.

@ AH: i think that that plan of action is a little over complex for what we want it to do. perhaps we should wait for olleus to see if it is simple or not.
i do however like your idea of the monotheism Civic only allowing one type of SR. could be very interesting.

Im confused. i never said i wnated to exclude SR specific buildings, thats whay all the altars, temples, cathedrals and monuments have different abilities, especially the monuments (basically minor religious wonders)
please note also that there are no CR buildings at all. in the list where i say "general buildings" under the CR heading, i mean that that is a benefit that all of the altars, temples etc in the SR of that CR get. they are not sepparate buildings (sorry, i had to say that )

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Here are a few of the ideas ive come up with for the Young Gods. ive also used the ideas that masada posted earlyer with some tweeking. Thanks for the ideas Masada

Spoiler :

The "Young Gods " Religion:
In General:
Young Gods has a normal Spread rate
with normal costs and priests
Its Altars, temples and Cathedrals should be an average cost, and will have normal effects.
---General Buildings:
Altar --- +1 Culture
Temple --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Cathedral --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Monument --- +1 gold for all Religious Buildings of its faith, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion.
---General Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) can convert a city to its Young Gods sub religion.
Priest (requires Temple) can convert a city to its Young Gods sub religion. Can heal units.
High Priest (requires Cathedral) can convert a city to its Young Gods sub religion. Can heal units. Can inquisition.


Sub Religions:
-The Northern Gods
All altars, Temples and Cathedrals of the Northern Gods make Alters temples and Cathedrals of the Southern Gods unavailable in the city that they are built (meaning that one city cannot have both the Northern gods and the southern gods in it at the same time.) Altars, Temples and Cathedrals of the Northern Gods each make all units 5% cheaper to produce (military and religious).
The city with the monument becomes immune to Barbarian attacks (meaning that barbarians cannot attack the city with the northern monument)
All religious units have 1 more strength than normal religious units.

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar to the Northern Gods
Temple= Temple of the Northern Pantheon
Cathedral= Sacred Hall of the Northern Pantheon
Monument= Hall of Heavenly Protection
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Northern Fanatic
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Warrior Priest of the North
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Warrior High-Priest of the North (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-The Southern Gods
All altars, Temples and Cathedrals of the Southern Gods make Alters temples and Cathedrals of the Northern Gods unavailable in the city that they are built (meaning that one city cannot have both the Northern gods and the Southern gods in it at the same time.) Alters, Temples and Cathedrals of the Southern Gods each produce +1 Happiness.
All religious units of the southern gods are also able to build ‘libraries’ in cities with the Southern Gods CR at the cost of their life.
The Hall of Heavenly Bounty makes all plots of land in it’s cities radius with 2 food instead produce 3.

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar to the Southern Gods
Temple= Temple of the Southern Pantheon
Cathedral= Sacred Hall of the Southern Pantheon
Monument= Hall of Heavenly Bounty
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Southern Altar Servers
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Scholar Priest of the South
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Scholar High-Priest of the North (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-The Old World Pantheon
All Old World Pantheon buildings produce +1 happiness if another Young Gods SR is present in the city. (cancelling out the -1 happiness from competing SR’s) all Temple Streets produce +1 gold, and Temple Districts produce +2 gold (symbolising the charitable donations by the population to the temples)
Priests are also able to inquisition.
Al Acolytes, Priests and High priests built in the city with the Seat of the Gods have one extra priest spell.

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar to the Gods
Temple= Temple Street
Cathedral= Temple District
Monument= Seat of the Gods
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Acolyte of the Gods
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Priest of the Gods
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- High Priest of the Gods (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

-The Norse Pantheon
A city with a Norse Pantheon’s ‘Horgr’ is able to sacrifice an ‘animal’ to produce +1 Happyness for 5 turns. The Sacred Copse allows cities to build ‘Sacrificial Animals’ to be sacrificed at the Horgr. The Long House allows cities to build 2 kinds of High priest, a Seiokona who also acts also as a normal mage, and the Hersir, who is a strong warrior chieftain with very high moral bonuses to his stack but unable to inquisition. The Shamaness and Volva act also as weak mages.
The Valhalla makes all religious units built in the city start with one extra priest spell.

---Buildings:
Altar= Hörgr
Temple= Sacred Copse
Cathedral= Long House
Monument= Valhalla
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Shamaness
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Völva
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Seiðkona and Hersir (World Unit, can only have 3 of each at a time)

 

[Masada]

@ Psychic_Llamas yeah for the buildings would be all right i guess... hating a minority is one thing hating a minority with places of worship is alot easier.. reallt the numbers are going to need to be tweaked for them but the basic idea should be the same.. (balance..) Lord Ollues (hint hint) hope he gets it

@Psychic_Llamas would that forced conversion be a one use waste the unit ability? i think that it should be a use as many times as you want ability... with side effects unhappiness would be good? and maybe a destruction/barbarism (rebellion) of each and every unit of that state religion... that might be a bit extreme.. but something like that

@Psychic_Llamas

Gods of the North=perfection incarnate barbarians were the bane of all the northen civs of the old world chaos be dammed!!! well they are allready litteraly... maybe the monument should give some promotions... barbs are normally only a small problem...

The gods of the south=!!!! perfect they would have alot more people than civs that are constantly fighting against barbs *typo* Scholar High-Priest of the North (South maybe?)...

The Old world gods= could do the same with Chaos undivided gets happiness from having more cult buildings but maybe it should have a base unhappiness built into it... to offset the extra happiness it gets...

Norse gods= can they sacrifice population as well? that would be a logical step needed to go from worshipping Norse gods to worshipping Chaos..

 

[Arexack_heretic]

hmm...yes I went a bit overboard on complexity there.
Ah sorry PL, I misunderstood, in that case I am happy with your proposals for the CR:SR system.

A God of Atheism...bit naive of him to think he'd be friends with the others....
like a politician saying "I'm going to abolish democracy and tax everybody more, by the way I lied about my diploma." a bit self-defeating.
I think the God of Atheism was abolished before Sigmar...somewhere in prehistory.

About the Inquisitor...
how about a single use ability similar to that of missionaries (kill a faction in one city or maybe even all rival factions)
and a continuous negative effect on the spread/growth of rival factions/religions if based in a city.

For the acolyte/etc not 'convert a city' but rather 'found a coven' or 'spread the word'. It would be unlikely for an entire city to convert instantaneously on the whim of a single religious figure...more likely he/she'd get lynched....

"hera ye, hear ye!
Good people of Altdorf!
Your Gods are false!
Convert to my religiion now or be damned for eternity and....aargh! Stop pelting me with that brown stuff! *uck*"

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

@ masada: yeh, your right that the numbers need tweeking, but i think the basic idea's good.

i was thinking that once the forced conversion is used, the unit is 'sacrificed' to symbolyse him staying in that city to convert it. perhaps once they are 'sacrificed it can cause a gradual dismantling of all the SR buildings not of that High Priest's religion. say 1 turn for an altar to be destroyed, 2 turns for a temple to be estroyed and 3 turns for a cathedral to be destroyed. perhaps make Monuments unaffected by the forced conversion?
i think it should cause 1 cumulative unhappiness for every turn it takes to remove a SR, but once it is complete, order is restored?

@ masada: im glad you like those ideas
i was thinking that the young gods SRs shouldnt be as strong as the Old Faiths SRs because they are cheaper. so i think maybe an added promotion is a bit much for the Northern gods monumnet. (but thats just a maybe, you might be able to purswade me otherwise...)

yes, that should be Scholar High-Priest of the South .

can you explain what you mean by

could do the same with Chaos undivided gets happiness from having more cult buildings but maybe it should have a base unhappiness built into it... to offset the extra happiness it gets...

well, i researched the Horgr and found they only sacrificed animals on them, but i suppose, as a step toward chaos, you could sacrifice people, but i think that should stay unique to Dark elves, Lizard men and Chaos.

@AH: not a problem it was an easy mistake, i should have writen it clearer

good idea about the 'found a coven' or 'spread the word' thing for acolytes.
(love the quote BTW )

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Here's a quick list of some ideas for the Dark Children:

Spoiler :

The "Dark Children" Religion:
In General:
Dark Children has a Normal Spread rate
with expensive costs of priests
Its Altars, temples and Cathedrals should be an High cost, and will have Good effects.
---General Buildings:
Altar --- +1 Culture
Temple --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Cathedral --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Monument --- +1 gold for all Religious Buildings of its faith, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion.
---General Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) can convert a city to its Dark Children sub religion.
Priest (requires Temple) can convert a city to its Dark Children sub religion. Can heal units.
High Priest (requires Cathedral) can convert a city to its Dark Children sub religion. Can heal units. Can inquisition.


Sub Religions:
-The Veneration of Nagash
The Bone Pillar increases the heal rate of Undead units in and adjacent to the city, but decreases the heal rate of living units in and adjacent to the city.
The Temple of Skulls allows all religious units produced in the city to have access to one more spell from The Winds of Death magic.
Units can be sacrificed in cities with a Great Crypt Hall in it to produce an Undead unit with no upkeep costs (different undead unit depends on sacrificed unit ie sacrificed melee unit = Undead Swordman unit, sacrificed ranged unit = Undead Bowman unit, sacrificed mage unit = Undead Necromancer, mounted sacrifice = Undead Horseman)
Acolytes start with one death spell, priests start with 1 death spell and High Priests start with 2 death spells.
All undead and religious units built in the city with Nagashizzar in it gain the ‘Vampiric’ promotion which allows them to restore their health when they attack.

---Buildings:
Altar= Bone Pillar
Temple= Temple of Skulls
Cathedral= Great Crypt Hall
Monument= Nagashizzar
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Cultist of Nagash
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Dedicate of Nagash
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Great Follower of Nagash (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- The Horned Rat

---Buildings:
Altar= Great Belfry
Temple= Bell Temple
Cathedral= Chapel of the 13 Bells
Monument= The Temple of the Horned Rat
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Prophet of the Horned Rat
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Seer of the Horned Rat
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Great Seer of the Horned Rat (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


-The Blood Cult

---Buildings:
Altar= Blood Shrine
Temple= Blood House
Cathedral= Hall of Blood Rights
Monument= The Blood Soaked Throne
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Vampire Initiate
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Vampire Priestess
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Vampire Queen (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Gods of the Dark Forge

---Buildings:
Altar= Chaos Anvil
Temple= Black Vaults
Cathedral= Catacombs of the Dark Ones
Monument= The Dark Forge
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Acolyte of the Dark Forge
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Priest of the Dark Forge
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- High-Priest of the Dark Forge (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

and another list for the Chaos Cults:

Spoiler :

The "Chaos Cults" Religion:
In General:
Chaos Cults has a Fast Spread rate
with Expensive priests
Its Altars, temples and Cathedrals should be an very High cost, and will have very Good effects.
---General Buildings:
Altar --- +1 Culture
Temple --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Cathedral --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Monument --- +1 gold for all Religious Buildings of its faith, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion.
---General Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) can convert a city to its Chaos Cults sub religion. Can capture defeated enemies as slaves.
Priest (requires Temple) can convert a city to its Chaos Cults sub religion. Can heal units.
High Priest (requires Cathedral) can convert a city to its Chaos Cults sub religion. Can heal units. Can inquisition.


Sub Religions:
- Nurgle
Cities with a Nurgle Altar can sacrifice slaves to give one random non deamon unit in the city the “Gift of Nurgle” Promotion (which allows that unit a 20% chance to create a Nurgling from it’s defeated enemies.
The Temple of Nugle allows its city to build Nurglings.
The Hall of Infection allows its city to build Plague Bearers with the ‘Gift of Nurgle’ promotion.
Nurgle Cultists can cast 1 spell from the Nurgle Spells list, Disciples of Nurgle can cast 1 spell from the Nurgle Spells list, Lord-Priests of Nurgle can cast 2 spells from the Nurgle Spells list.
The infernal Pit of Contagion automatically produces a great Unclean One every 80 turns (The Great Unclean One is a world unit)

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar of Plague
Temple= Temple of Nurgle
Cathedral= Hall of Infection
Monument= Infernal Pit of Contagion
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Nurgle Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Disciple of Nurgle
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Lord-Priest of Nurgle (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Tzeentch
Cities with a Tzeentch Altar can sacrifice slaves to give one random non deamon unit in the city the “Gift of Tzeentch” Promotion (which allows that unitto cast one spell from the Tzeentch magic list).
The Temple of Tzeentch allows its city to build Screamers of Tzeentch.
The Hall of Alteration allows its city to build Horrors of Tzeentch
Tzeentch Cultists can cast 2 spells from the Tzeentch Spells list, Disciples of Tzeentch can cast 3 spell from the Tzeentch Spells list, Lord-Priests of Tzeentch can cast 4 spells from the Tzeentch Spells list.
The Spire of Shifting Chaos automatically produces a Lord of Change every 80 turns (The Lord of Change is a world unit)

Altar= Altar of Change
Temple= Temple of Tzeentch
Cathedral= Hall of Alteration
Monument= Spire of Shifting Chaos
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Tzeentch Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Disciple of Tzeentch
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Lord-Priest of Tzeentch (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Khorne
Cities with a Khorne Altar can sacrifice slaves to give one random non deamon unit in the city the “Gift of Khorne” Promotion (which makes that unit Lust for Blood, and as such gains a movement bonus and strength bonus of 1 for the rest of the game).
The Temple of Khorne allows its city to build Flesh Hounds of Khorne.
The Hall of Blood allows its city to build Bloodletters.
Khorne rAcolytes, Priests and high priests cannot cast any Priest spells or any other spell, and cannot be affected by the Gift of Tzeentch promotion. They do however gain +1, +2, and +3 strength respectively.
The Blood Palace of Skulls automatically produces a Bloodthirster every 80 turns (The Bloodthirster is a world unit)

Altar= Altar of War
Temple= Temple of Khorne
Cathedral= Hall of Blood
Monument= Blood Palace of Skulls
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Khorne Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Disciple of Khorne
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Lord-Priest of Khorne (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Slaanesh
Cities with a Slaanesh Altar can sacrifice slaves to remove unhappiness from that city for 3 turns.
The Temple of Slaanesh allows its city to build Daemonettes of Slaanesh.
The Hall of Pleasure allows its city to build Daemonettes on Steeds of Slaanesh.
(both Slaaneshee Deamons have the ‘gift of Slaanesh’ promotion, which gives them a 20% chance of seducing a defeated enemy and produce a slave.)
Slaanesh Acolytes, Priests and high priests can cast 1, 1, and 2 spells from the Magic of Slaanesh respectively.
The Harem of Eternal lust automatically produces a Keeper of Secrets every 80 turns (The Keeper of Secrets is a world unit)

Altar= Altar of Desires
Temple= Temple of Slaanesh
Cathedral= Hall of Pleasure
Monument= Harem of Eternal lust
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Slaanesh Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Disciple of Slaanesh
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Lord-Priest of Slaanesh (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Chaos Undivided
All Chaos Undivided buildings produce +1 happiness if another Chaos Cults SR is present in the city. (cancelling out the -1 happiness from competing SR’s)
Cities with a Chaos Undivided Altar can sacrifice slaves to give one random non deamon unit in the city the “Gift of Chaos” Promotion (turning it into one random level 1 deamon of any of the 4 Chaos Gods).
The Chaos Temple allows its city to sacrifice deamons to gain 1 population
The 8 Halls of Chaos allows its city to sacrifice slaves to gain +15 instant Magic commerce.
All chaos undivided religious units act exactly as spys, except that instead of espionage, they can convert enemy cities without declaring war.
The Chaos Void automatically produces a Daemon Prince every 80 turns (The Daemon Prince is a world unit)

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar of Chaos
Temple= Chaos Temple
Cathedral= 8 Halls of Chaos
Monument= The Chaos Void
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Chaos Cultist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Chaos Priest
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Chaos Mutant-Priest (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

One more list, The Gods of Law:

Spoiler :

The " Gods of Law" Religion:
In General:
Gods of Law has a normal Spread rate
with Cheap priests
Its Altars, temples and Cathedrals should be an normal cost, and will have normal effects.
---General Buildings:
Altar --- +1 Culture
Temple --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Cathedral --- +1 Culture, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion
Monument --- +1 gold for all Religious Buildings of its faith, increases spread of its faith’s sub religion.
---General Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) can convert a city to its Gods of Law sub religion.
Priest (requires Temple) can convert a city to its Gods of Law sub religion. Can heal units.
High Priest (requires Cathedral) can convert a city to its Gods of Law sub religion. Can heal units. Can inquisition.


Sub Religions:
- Cult of Celestial Dragon
The Altar of Ancestral Spirits gives it’s city +1 Science (showing the increased passing of knowledge down through the ages from praying to the ancestors.) The Monastery prevents the spread of other SR in the city. The Jade Halls adds +1 happiness.
The Censor can use the forced conversion ability without sacrificing itself. The Warrior Monks and the legalists are both also able to use the Forced Conversion ability.
Emperor Quan’s Monument removes war weariness in the city and adds +50% culture to the city.

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar of Ancestral Spirits
Temple= Monastery of the Celestial Dragon
Cathedral= Jade Halls of Law
Monument= Emperor Quan’s Monument
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Legalist
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Warrior monks of the Celestial Dragon
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Censor (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)


- Jintoism
The Altar of Ancestral Spirits gives it’s city +1 Science (showing the increased passing of knowledge down through the ages from praying to the ancestors.) The Jinto Shrine Adds +1 Happiness from forests. The Jinto Monestary adds +1 health to the city and increases Unit heal rate in the city’s radius.
The Jinto Monks have a more advanced form of healing and heal greater damage than other monks. The Jinto Warrior Monk also has increased healing, and +1 strength.
The Great Pagoda Temple automatically spawns Jade Guardian Dogs every 10 turns, with 0 movement and strong defence. It also grants religious units produced in the city the ‘regeneration’ promotion.

---Buildings:
Altar= Altar of Ancestral Spirits
Temple= Jinto Shrine
Cathedral= Jinto Monestary
Monument= The Great Pagoda Temple
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Jinto Acolyte
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Jinto Monk
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Jinto Warrior-Monk (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)



- Ormazd Pantheon
Cities with the: Altar get +1 Happiness , Temple get +1 Happiness from Incense and priests of the Ormzad pantheon built in those cities get the ‘inquisitor’ ability, Cathedrals make their city immune to the spread of non state religion. All priests of the Ormzad Pantheon built in cities with the Cathedral are able to summon elementals and act like normal elementalists.
---Buildings:
Altar= Obelisk to the Gods
Temple= Temple of Al-Anon
Cathedral= Al-Anon Grand Temple Complex
Monument= Al-Anon’s Garden
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar) --- Ormzad Initiate
Priest (requires Temple) --- Priest of Ormzad
High Priest (requires Cathedral) --- Great Sage of Ormzad (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)



- Sigmarism
The Hammer Altar adds +1 hammer to the city. The Temple of Sigmar prevents the spread of other SR in the city. The Cathedral grants new units produced in the city the ‘Zealot’ promotion (meaning they are immune to other religious effects on units, such as the ‘gift of Nurgle’ promotion)
All Sigmarite religious units start with the Zealot promotion, and the Warrior Priest, and Theogonists gain +1 strength. The theogonist has one extra priest spell.

---Buildings:
Altar= Hammer Altar
Temple= Temple of Sigmar
Cathedral= Cathedral of the Twin Tailed Comet
Monument= The Hammer of Sigmar
---Priests:
Acolyte (requires Altar)--- Sigmarite Zealot
Priest (requires an Altar in 3 cities)--- Warrior-Priest of Sigmar
High Priest (requires an Altar in every city)--- Grand Theogonist of Sigmar (World Unit, can only have 3 at a time)

Perhaps once all the basic details for all the SRs are done, ill go back and balance them some more, because ive noticed that some of these are very unbalanced

 

[Arexack_heretic]

i was thinking that once the forced conversion is used, the unit is 'sacrificed' to symbolyse him staying in that city to convert it. perhaps once they are 'sacrificed it can cause a gradual dismantling of all the SR buildings not of that High Priest's religion. say 1 turn for an altar to be destroyed, 2 turns for a temple to be estroyed and 3 turns for a cathedral to be destroyed. perhaps make Monuments unaffected by the forced conversion?
i think it should cause 1 cumulative unhappiness for every turn it takes to remove a SR, but once it is complete, order is restored?

I like the conversion duration, it's alike to the capture-unrest.
However this could be very confusing if the unit did not stay in the city as a greatperson icon. Or some new 'iconoclast' icon alike to the uprising fist icon. ( :'turns to go')

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

thats a good point, we would need a new mini-icon to symbolyse the city being purged. any ideas? anyone willing to make it?

 

[Masada]

And no there art e 4 gods of chaos that are not part of the present make up of the chaos... they are still chaos but they were driven away they have exited canon for a bit but have made some odd appearances of late in some of the books/publications of warhammer

think about it this way a goverment does not want its religous figures lynced that would prompt some unpleasantness... need i say more and that isnt quite right figures in history have converted large groups/areas. But i tend to agree with you it is not the normal case for that sort of thing to happen but who is to say it is only a single acolyte that would be silly it costs the around the same to produce a unit of spearmen say... so wouldnt it be logical to assume it is a full mission of acolytes and that a high priest is him plus the lackeys/followers etc that tend to stick...

About the inquiesitor i dont see why he should vanish... it destroys the point of expending so many shields to make and then waste a high priest... even as we look at it now destroying a fully built up city and the undesirable religion would take 4 turns... which means 4 high priests... which means a lot of turns building stuff...

And yeah it should create unhappiness for a couple of turns naturally this should be worse than just letting the religion slide...

Perhaps the Horgr should just -1 food a turn to maintan sacrificing all those "animals" would be hard on the resources would also be really funny if your city died out because the people were feeding there Horgr instead of themsevles... (would also be easier to institute)

Oh and in Scandinavia there are huge mass graves where people were sacrificed etc

Oh and the Norse and terrible raiders who take lots of slaves... they arnt as bad to them as say the Dark Elves but they do trade them to Chaos...

Oh and Lizardmen are fairly selective with what they sacrifice to there gods.. skaven and dark elves mostly the rest is all after thought and generally as long as you dont "bother" them they leave you alone... exactly what bothering entails is hard to say...

The raised fist wins my vote for the icon of doom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(will review the rest tommorow to tired and busy atm.. and typing on my new laptop is hard on the wrists...

 

[Arexack_heretic]

I vote for a hand holding a flaming torch.

edit:
something like this:
(maybe withoiut the hand.)

Edit: Hey P_L...
Do you intend then, that any civ (with Ancient Faiths CR) could research, say, The Old Ones and build a national wonder for the SR?
Or do I still need to include racial-techs to determine access to and availability to these religions.
For human civs this may be a good thing actually.... but not for Orcs/Skaven etc.

It doesnt really matter anymore who founded a religion right?
So I'll probably group most around the ancient era.
I'd rather not have humans worshipping Elven gods and Elves worhipping Human ones, so if at all workable I'll introduce hurdles for some, shortcuts for others to developing certain religions.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

"One of Teclis' deeds was to find such low sorcerers and hedge wizards as existed in the empire" The empire had mages before the elves improved upon there skills

"Magnus asked Teclis to help him create an institution whereby wizards might be properly trained... But Teclis rlealised that the safety of the whole world... rested upon the men of the empire"

Will continue later (Empire army book)

True. However from Warhammer roleplay I got that ...

Humans bagan with hedge wizardry and eventually tried to develop a human unified theory of magic (HUToM) which is today referred to as elementalism.
Tecla brought humanity a more perfected system with battlemagic for those lesser mages and the prismatic arts for those mages of exceptional quality.
Although Elementalism is not in vogue, it is still practised by those of inquisitive mind as elementalism dabbles also in those properties of magic of no immediate effect.
Although elementalism is less coherent than prismatic magic, those mages adhering to it usually have more basic understanding of the nature of magic and it's inner workings than those of the alien prismatic arts. This is partly due to the high number of low quality wizard enrolled as battlemages, but mostly due to the experimental nature of this grand human enterprise, which encourages original thought where prismatic magic more comonly restricts the magical worker in his freedoms.

(Read as slightly biased scientific paper)

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Hi sorry 'bout the tripple post.

I feel rather strange about grouping the Chaos Dwarf Gods and the Horned One together with Nagash....

Shouldnt the first two be grouped within Chaos sects?
And Nagash seems to me a Mortal God (an ascended Mortal, rather than a GodEmperor).

Just minor griping. Because taking these tree out would leave the CR empty.
So a need to redefine -Dark Children-
maybe
Grouping of Powerfull beings. Akin to the young gods, but shunned or banished by their brethren and their followers.
Because they brought about their own downfall by plotting or because of the jealousy of those that cast them down in their ignorance. It does not matter, they failed, the Dark Children survived the onslaught and are seeking revenge. No longer distracted by pantheon responsibilities, they can plot and gather power, to bring about the destruction of those that cast them down.
Or at least those their followers.

Defining characteristic is that these gods are no longer who they once were, they have been in some ways diminished and have become petty and dark in nature. (or more so than before)
Nagash was betrayed by the skaven and is now diminished in power, but is now more a minor deity than the powerfull liche he was before.
Sometimes a whole section of the pantheon is exciled.

The God of Atheism is no longer in this world, but still sends dark whispers of doubt to the ears of believers from his realm in the warp.

The horned one is a mystery. He could be an ascendant mortal, bent on the despoiling of the world. He could also be a minor Chaotic deity who created his own followers. (Not a rare occurence in mythology) Whatever the truth, he is bent on destruction and chaos.
He has chosen the rats to be his followers, probably because he identifies with them. Disdained and loathed by humans and elves, he is likewise loathed by other gods and with disdain by the chaos gods.

How the Blooded fit in I'm not sure.
Their immortal progenitor (Dracul?) probably ascended when his un-mortal body was detroyed. ?



I love the CR-SR system btw.

edit:
'nother minor thing...Ormzad Pantheon: Its both 'OldFaith' and 'Law'.
I think it was the favorite religion of Arabya? Was 'the One' exciled from this pantheon?
Can't quite figure the difference between all the youngOnes Northern/Norse Southern/Ormzad Oldworld is Empire/Bretonia/Tillea/Estallia/Kislev no?
I'm a bit confused where to put the religions and who to give shortcuts.
Don't forget the lady of the Lake for Bretonia and the king...Will they be in the mortal Gods section?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

@ masada: well first off i have no idea what you were going on about over the 4 chaos gods sorry, but it made no sense

i think you missundestood my meaning about the inquisitors. let me try rephrase it:
I was thinking that the High Priests of each SR have the "Inquisition / Forced conversion / Purge" promotion. this promotion enables that unit to initiate a chain reaction in a city with any SR other than his own. when the inquisition ability is used, the High Priest is 'sacrificed' to represent him converting, or killing, the heathens in that city. now, only ONE High Priest is required to purge a city of it's heathens, that means you do not need to build one high priest for every building. Once the High Priests are 'sacrificed' it would cause a gradual dismantling of all the SR buildings not of that High Priest's religion. say 1 turn for an altar to be destroyed, 2 turns for a temple to be estroyed and 3 turns for a cathedral to be destroyed, and 1 turn for a non state CR to be removed.
And for each turn taken to purge that city, 1 point of cumulative unhappyness is produced, but once the purging is complete, and everyone in the city follows the same faith, order is restored.

For Example: lets say that i have a city with the 2 CRs "Chaos Gods", and "The Old Faiths" and in that same city i have an altar for the SRs "The Old Faith", "Asuryanism" and "The Cult of Khain", and i also have a temple and cathedral for "Asuryanism", and a temple for "The Cult of Khain".
Now, lets say that i want to remove the Chaos Gods CR and the Cult of Khain and the Old Faith SRs from that city because there is too much unhappyness, and the city is not running efficiently. so, i build myself a 'Mage-Priest of Asuryan' (the High Priest for Asuryanism) and order him to purge that city.
because i have 2 altars and 1 temple not for the Asuyan Religion, and one non state religion, it will take 5 turns to complete the inquisition. this means, that after 5 turns, and after the city has 5 unhappy people, all the unwanted SRs and CRs will be removed and the city will once again run smoothly.
did that make more sense?

@ masada: i dont think that -1 food would be a good idea, like you said, it would be wierd if the city didnt feed itself, only its Horgr. its not too hard to make a new unit (sacrificial animals) or maybe we can make the Norse priests able to capture wild animals to sacrifice...
i see your point about the human sacrifices now. done.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

@AH: Flaming torch sounds good, maybe with not such a trangular stick (looks kinda carrot like )

yes, I was thinking that each civ can build each monument once (like a national wonder) to start that SR in thier cities.

i think maybe adding certain techs that are already avaliable to some civs (i dunno... eg some tech like Elven Mythology, or something, which all the elven races start with, and is required for the techs which found the elven SRs ?) and not others, making some religions easyer to gain than others.
the order that religions should go is this (IMO):
1 The Old Faiths (early 1st era)
2 Chaos Cults (early 1st era)
3 Dark Children ( mid 1st era)
4 Gods of Law ( late 1st era)
5 Mortal Gods (early 2nd era)
6 Barbaric Gods (early 2nd era)
7 Young Gods (mid 2nd era)

@ AH: dont worry about tripple posting , its better than not posting right

we could rename 'Dark Children' to 'The Outcast Faiths'

Also, the Blood Cult is a sect of Nagash following, not someone called 'Dracul' it is basically a vampiric aristocracy, similar to the vampire civ in FfH. where the Veneration of Nagash and The Blood Cult are smilar, they reflect differnet aspects of following Nagash: Vampirism, and necromancy.

it would be quite interesting if we added the 'God of Atheism' (even though i think thats a contradiction, and a false bit of fluff, it sounds interesting) in under the Outcast faiths or whatever, it could be very interesting... no spread of not state faith religion, or spread of non atheist SR...

PS, im glad you like it

@AH: about Ormzad, from what i can gather, it was initially the pantheon of Khemri, then the lesser gods pissed off Al-Anon of left to find more followers (araby) so he wasnt exactly exiled, he just left.

Well, the northern gods is the worship of those gods primarily in the northern areas of the empire (Kislev, Empire, Norsca), those that protect against hardship and whatnot, the Norse is really only for the Norsca civ and perhaps Kislev. Southern Gods is generally the gods of plenty, and worshiped in the Sough of the Old World (Bretonnia Tillia, Estalia, Boarder Princes), Ormzad is worshiped mostly in Araby, and formerly Khemri and Lhamia. Yes, Oldworld is Empire/ Bretonia/ Tillea/ Estallia/ Kislev.
Lady of the Lake, and Sigmar and a few others will be in the Mortal Gods. section
(did that answer your question?)



@ all:
By the way guys, Thanks so much for all of this Brainstorming its great. some of the ideas you guys come up with are brilliant.

it would be nice if we got more peoples oppinions though, because mine and yours might not be the same as everyone else. (HINT HINT EVERYONE)

 

[Masada]

@Arexack_heretic warhammer fantasy roleplaying isnt canon.. nor is it considered offiicial canon nor do i think it has ever been considered official canon... and im to lazy atm to dig up all the evidence in recent publications to refute that however this sums it up nicely all magic is directly the result of chaos, the winds of magic are chaos incarnate....

Using the rules Psychic_Llamas and I came up with that infomation could be drawn into the mod even though it isnt canon because of a lack of infomation as long as all infomation that runs contary to the accepted lore is removed... it helps bulk out elementalism great therefore it can be used... but maybe not quite in that format

@Arexack_heretic Nagash is the creater of the undead the propegator

link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagash_%28Warhammer)

it was because of someone reading a spell wrong in his spell book that Vampires came about.. Vampires and the undead are therefore the children of Nagash. There is no great cult of Nagash instead it just represents the general beliefs/motivations of the various sentiment undead of the warhammer world... of which there are 4 kingdoms that spring to mind that are ruled by the undead, Sylvania, The Vampire Coast (in Lustria), Khemri and there is a vampire Kingdom in the southlands...

Put all the real atheists with a genuine understanding of why they dont believe in gods or goddesses (not god as some mistakenly say) and you would have a small amount and 99% of those would be in the Western world...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malal (is one of exiled chaos gods)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necoho (God of Athemism.. which is odd since he is a god...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuvassin (God of making sure nothing goes to plan...)

but there is another god floating around... and i would ignore them for the mod because they are very minor gods but they are gods... considering in the old world there is a god of the hearth, home, cats, dogs etc...

The horned one is the god of Skaven he is a chaotic deity but to what extent he is beyond me... he is not like any of the 4 major gods of chaos but i can assure you he isnt mortal or ever has been...

Chaos Dwarf Gods are just really perverted forms of the dwarve gods or at least thats what they started out as... then they got deeper

The Dark Children are the misbegotten spawn of various things they have that in common... they are accidents and screwups... and really they sorta fit well into it.. they all fall into the same timeline

@Arexack_heretic the Ormazad pantheon is a different pantheon from any other it is not part of the old world gods... they dont share gods and they do deserve a spot they are the gods of Khermi and Araby but they are also the gods of most of the humans of the Southlands..

@Psychic_Llamas great forced conversion idea... no arguements here

I dont know sacrificing lots of animals would be a drain on the food supply... and i think that concept could be streched to chaos temples etc as well... they sorta sacrifice lots of things.. and maybe you could have a negative growth modifer... the tribes of chaos sacrifce the young, old or with physical and mental problems to the gods of chaos... that would hurt the potential growth of a city/camp...

@Psychic_Llamas yeah you could do that... its been done in other mods with fairly good effect

@Psychic_Llamas names schames... dont even bother with the god of atheism he is a minor diety and yes he is official canon... and yes he is a contradiction but then hes the god of those as wel...

And yeah Nagash is the father of Necromancy and Vampirism...

We could make the Ormazad Pantheon just one faith... atm any simplifaction the better... sadly alot of faiths cant be simplified... *shudders* at the thought of doing Chaos..

@Everyone... post things... COME ON PLZ!!!

I get to take a bow cause Psychic_Llamas praised me... dont u want that? *takes a bow*

Note http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashut is the chaos god of the Chaos Dwarves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horned_Rat is the chaos god of the Skaven...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be'lakor is what happens to mortals when they try and play the Chaos gods...
An'sl, Mo'rcck,and Phraz-Etar are also Chaos gods... other than that nothing is known about them...
And from Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing...Khakkekk (goblin god of blood), Atagro (god of beasts), Meneloth (elven god of pleasure), Obscuras (god of shadows and hidden things) and Mermedus (god of the sea)

There are way to many gods in Warhammer to represent...

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Yes, thanks P_L that answers quite a few of them.
Now get back to finishing the other SR's!

@Masada:
MAgic is not Chaos incarnate. The energies of the Warp are chaotic, yes, but not inherently evil. Magic is the imposing of order to the unstructured power of the winds. Raw magic opposes this structuring, but the difracted colours of magic are more pliable.
However using magic does attract the attention of denizens of the immaterium and their attentions are rarely considdered benign.

Anyhow the nature of magic is debated with much passion in the WH-world itself. Some call it inherently dangerous or evil, while others claim it is neutral.

I'd say, that magic takes on the allignment of the user or his patron-deity.
(Or maybe the intention flavours the allignment, who knows?)

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Check the Warlords thread for the latest TechChart.

I've been hashing things about and I'd like some feedback on it.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

dont get me started on that magic debate again, please! for my own sake

@ masada: well, i still dont particularly like the idea of sacrificing food for the Horgr. but i suppose the only way to really decide is to try it to see if it works, or if its fun. (and because it's simple to do, if wqe want to change it, its not too hard) so ill agree for now -1 food it is.

@masada: thats very useful stuff on Hashep. ta

@ AH: yes sir, right away sir . (right after i have your oppinion on the ones i posted earlyer )