Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
(psst, i think its the same idea, but he just explained it)
Warhammer Heart of Chaos: Design Discussion
- Thread starter Psychic_Llamas
- Start date
(psst, i think its the same idea, but he just explained it)
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
Eh, prolly. I sometimes lose track of stuff when I'm reading these extra long posts.
But be cool anyway.
Dragonson
Back and Stronger
Wow. This thread has been quet for a whole day =O
Ahriman
Tyrant
We're working on trying to get an alpha.
Dragonson
Back and Stronger
I <3 you all then.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
haha i know! ive been at a loose end all day.
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
I spose today might be a good day to homework, what with it raining & all. And the forums quiet.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
lol i attempted homework.
unfortunately my attempts failed epically.
unfortunately my attempts failed epically.
Dragonson
Back and Stronger
Oh no... Epic fails.
That is the foreshadow of a catastrophe! It ALWAYS is!
P.L., Turn on the Awesome-Barriers, I repeat: Turn on the Awesome-Barriers!
That is the foreshadow of a catastrophe! It ALWAYS is!
P.L., Turn on the Awesome-Barriers, I repeat: Turn on the Awesome-Barriers!
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
sounds like a good idea. ill do that in the first post of the design thread.
EDIT: added a rough list of what we have done so far. i think ive forgotten a fair bit of stuff, but ill add to that as we go.
EDIT: added a rough list of what we have done so far. i think ive forgotten a fair bit of stuff, but ill add to that as we go.
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
I added in the Chaos UUs awhile back. So, if you could add that to the progress list please, PL. Thanks. 
Humakty
Happy Goblin
A question springs to my mind, reading some announcements for the next FFH patch : What about the AI ? Will it be possible to directly 'steal' the improvements from FFH/FF, or will the differences between the mods render it difficult ? Will it be easy to incorporate them later ?
I think it would be great to beneficiate from the start of a relatively clever AI, I mean able to tech and develop during the whole game (Sun Tzu teachings will have to wait a little, for sure).
Speaking about military stuff, I wonder how the AI will react to the absence/presence of some units in various OBs, as basic game OBs are really symetrical, with very slight differences. It is probably to avoid rendering the AI totally worthless that FF/FFH/Orbis tend to stick to basic game military schemas. (I more or less remember reading some lines about this from Kael, but I wouldn't swear it...)
I haven't yet interested myself into looking to the files directing military AI decisions, but it would be good to have a clever advice from someone which has done so.
PS : OB means Order of Battle (for WH battle fans, it's the army list)
PPS : I'm really afraid it will be totally cakewalk to kick AIs asses, militarily speaking ! But one can always give them free promotions from noble difficulty up to help alleviate this. A little.
PPS : there seem to be no boat UUs, I bet you left it for later ? Reading the arabs OB, I thought about amphibian Marids UUS replacing attack boats, but being a little less strong, and not able to carry anything.
I think it would be great to beneficiate from the start of a relatively clever AI, I mean able to tech and develop during the whole game (Sun Tzu teachings will have to wait a little, for sure).
Speaking about military stuff, I wonder how the AI will react to the absence/presence of some units in various OBs, as basic game OBs are really symetrical, with very slight differences. It is probably to avoid rendering the AI totally worthless that FF/FFH/Orbis tend to stick to basic game military schemas. (I more or less remember reading some lines about this from Kael, but I wouldn't swear it...)
I haven't yet interested myself into looking to the files directing military AI decisions, but it would be good to have a clever advice from someone which has done so.
PS : OB means Order of Battle (for WH battle fans, it's the army list)
PPS : I'm really afraid it will be totally cakewalk to kick AIs asses, militarily speaking ! But one can always give them free promotions from noble difficulty up to help alleviate this. A little.
PPS : there seem to be no boat UUs, I bet you left it for later ? Reading the arabs OB, I thought about amphibian Marids UUS replacing attack boats, but being a little less strong, and not able to carry anything.
Ahriman
Tyrant
My guess is (without really knowing anything about AI): we get whatever AI gains exist in the FFH/FF version that we build the mod on top of, but it will be hard to integrate whatever they add later.
Well, most basic unit functions are still present in most sides. The AI can use a chariot and a shock cavalry the same way, and if they dont' have a knight they can still generally build a lancer.
I suppose we could have problems, but this didn't seem like a big worry to me, at least initially.
What is it that you are worried about?
If anything, I think it will be harder to beat on the AI relative to the old WH mod, because more of the RockPaperScissors system advantages the defender, so it will be harder for the human player to conquer the AI.
Plus, changing the bombardment system so that catapults aren't as uber will help too.
Cephalo seems to be the AI expert these days.
But my understanding was that there were a handful of unit AI roles, and we still basically stick to those:
City defender (bowmen)
Stack defender (spearmen, crossbow)
Explorer (recon)
City attacker (sword/axe)
Siege (catapult/cannon)
Mobile/mounted (chariot, mounted)
The AI basically has some city defenders, and then puts the rest of its army into a big super-stack and invades, bombs the walls, then throws everything at the enemy.
rocklikeafool
Warmaster
Playtesting will tell us more. Hopefully, that'll be soon. And I doubt there'll be any HUGE issues, just small tweaks we might have to make.
orlanth
Storm God. Yarr!
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2001
- Messages
- 1,805
hi Humakty welcome back
We won't make too drastic changes to the standard FF DLL; hopefully if we limit it to just a few changes like Opera's influence war modmod (that stand a chance of inclusion in FF anyway) it might still be possible to incorporate updates to FF; otherwise we'd miss out on any AI enhancements like the upcoming patches are focusing on. Honestly a large part of the AIs military comes from its massive free units at harder levels rather than production; its often been very questionable at building, specialist, civic and improvement choices, hopefully FF/FfH patches may help with that. Eliminating watchtower builds and forced tech beelining and adding the event upgrade workaround for bad improvement choices did help a good deal. In WH, we can add a nice amount of challenge by planning some appropriately apocalyptic late-endgame events - that way, once you've pulled far ahead of the regular AIs, there is still an enjoyable challenge to prevent (or encourage) apocalypse for the WH world.
Hey everybody. I'm anonymous player who really like Warhammer mod, so i want to share with you my opinions ;o. I had not read the whole treat so maybe it was already suggested.
1.) WarhammerWorld mod - Tilea, as great generals breeder bug.
I was playing as woodelvens, when i spoted a strange thing: Capital of Tilea start to lose population, and with every turn also Tilea start to spawn more and more great generals. Highest record was a 30+ generals in 1 turn. After that the spawn of generals start to decrease and returned to normal, but still every troop in Tilea army have now lvl 12+.
Hope you will fix it ;o.
2.)WarhammerWorld mod - AI of countries
Why AI of some countries like Nekkhara or Gilles are totaly ******ic ;o ? They dont expand and dont trade technologies with other players. That a bit strange and unfair because some countries have easier game with idiotic comp enemies ;o.
Have a nice day ;*
1.) WarhammerWorld mod - Tilea, as great generals breeder bug.
I was playing as woodelvens, when i spoted a strange thing: Capital of Tilea start to lose population, and with every turn also Tilea start to spawn more and more great generals. Highest record was a 30+ generals in 1 turn. After that the spawn of generals start to decrease and returned to normal, but still every troop in Tilea army have now lvl 12+.
Hope you will fix it ;o.
2.)WarhammerWorld mod - AI of countries
Why AI of some countries like Nekkhara or Gilles are totaly ******ic ;o ? They dont expand and dont trade technologies with other players. That a bit strange and unfair because some countries have easier game with idiotic comp enemies ;o.
Have a nice day ;*
Ahriman
Tyrant
1. This is remnants of an old problem with with the Insane trait. It will be fixed in the new version.
2. I plan to completely redo the Leaderhead AIs.
If someone who knows the fluff can give me a handful of adjectives for each leader, I can set up a list of AI leaderhead values for them in an Excel file (then hopefully someone can make a script to read them into the Leaderhead files- or you could ask David from Dunewars to do this, he read this in from an Excel file I created for Dunewars, MUCH faster than manually entering hundreds of values).
For example, a leader might be:
Honorable, religious, intolerant, militaristic, imperious.
or
Backstabbing, sneaky, opportunistic, un-trusting.
or
Super-aggressive, irrational, respects power
or
Trader, peaceful, friendly, trustworthy, industrious.
or
Peaceful, stubborn, industrious
etc.
Then I can try to set AI values that mimic some of these traits.
Like:
industrious = likes building wonders
imperious = likes making demands
Honorable = keeps to their agreements
Backstabbing = will attack even allies
un-trusting = won't share tech unless very good relations
stubborn = very resistant to making peace
militaristic = holds a big army
sneaky = likes spies and espionage buildings
opportunistic = joins in dogpile wars
Super-aggressive = attacks even very strong foes
respects power = positive attitude for stronger armies
despises weakness = hates weaker factions
trader = won't stop trading with people
etc.
I'm sure you can think of more; I just want to get an idea of the personality of each leader so I can try to replicate them in game.
Ideally, try to provide some kind of contrast within different leaders of the same faction. How is one Brettonnian king different from another?
I'll also do flavors for the techs, and for the leaderheads.
2. I plan to completely redo the Leaderhead AIs.
If someone who knows the fluff can give me a handful of adjectives for each leader, I can set up a list of AI leaderhead values for them in an Excel file (then hopefully someone can make a script to read them into the Leaderhead files- or you could ask David from Dunewars to do this, he read this in from an Excel file I created for Dunewars, MUCH faster than manually entering hundreds of values).
For example, a leader might be:
Honorable, religious, intolerant, militaristic, imperious.
or
Backstabbing, sneaky, opportunistic, un-trusting.
or
Super-aggressive, irrational, respects power
or
Trader, peaceful, friendly, trustworthy, industrious.
or
Peaceful, stubborn, industrious
etc.
Then I can try to set AI values that mimic some of these traits.
Like:
industrious = likes building wonders
imperious = likes making demands
Honorable = keeps to their agreements
Backstabbing = will attack even allies
un-trusting = won't share tech unless very good relations
stubborn = very resistant to making peace
militaristic = holds a big army
sneaky = likes spies and espionage buildings
opportunistic = joins in dogpile wars
Super-aggressive = attacks even very strong foes
respects power = positive attitude for stronger armies
despises weakness = hates weaker factions
trader = won't stop trading with people
etc.
I'm sure you can think of more; I just want to get an idea of the personality of each leader so I can try to replicate them in game.
Ideally, try to provide some kind of contrast within different leaders of the same faction. How is one Brettonnian king different from another?
I'll also do flavors for the techs, and for the leaderheads.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
fantastice idea Ahri. when im back ill add in a list of leader behaviours to the Overview thread.
There should be also diplomat - makes defensive pacts with evryone he can. Guy like him will be hard opponent in war
Religious - a crusader type which hate other religion factions, also special religion have special sort of enemies like Salvation vs Corruption, Destruction vs Elven Gods, Ect.
I'm not so good in lore ;o.
Racist - Hate other races, it would looks like: Human racist - Hate humanoids, undeads, elvens.
I'm really happy of response !
Next thing. Can be there added, to a normal game, whole list of civics from WorldofWarhammer mod ?. It's sad also that i cant choose amount of factions in game. Sometimes map can be really empty, especially on big games.
Hope i could help a bit
Religious - a crusader type which hate other religion factions, also special religion have special sort of enemies like Salvation vs Corruption, Destruction vs Elven Gods, Ect.
I'm not so good in lore ;o.
Racist - Hate other races, it would looks like: Human racist - Hate humanoids, undeads, elvens.
I'm really happy of response !
Next thing. Can be there added, to a normal game, whole list of civics from WorldofWarhammer mod ?. It's sad also that i cant choose amount of factions in game. Sometimes map can be really empty, especially on big games.
Hope i could help a bit
