Warlord Leaders are overpowered

[JarlFrank]

In my current game, I'm a bit further in tech than the other nations and have access to Warlord Captains since many turns now. The other civs are slowly catching up and have access to regular units of a comparable tech level now, but only one other civ is fielding Warlord Captains currently, and they're no match for my own highly experienced high-level Warlord Captains. Not to mention the regular units... even those which are a few techs more advanced (ancient hand cannons, for example) and cultural special units have no chance against Warlord Captains.

I think the Warlords are severely overpowered units considering what they're capable of: they are able to get the Leadership and Heroic promotions, just like units that have been joined by a Great General. And yet, they have a much higher strength value than any regular unit available at the tech level. Warlord Captains have a strength of 15... the strongest regular units I have right now, and I have advanced quite a bit in tech since the WCs became available, are mailed knights with a strength of 14. And those are several techs in front of the WCs! Regular units, including cultural special units, just don't stand a chance against the Warlord leader units.

I had a similar situation in a previous game where I was the least advanced civ, but it didn't really matter as I had access to Warlord Chiefs and so did almost everyone else - and most armies of all the civs consisted mainly of Warlord Chiefs, because they were the strongest unit available.

This, combined with the ability to attack neutral civs without declaring war, makes them really, really overpowered. In my current game, I've had three Warlord Captains attack units in neutral lands for many, many turns now, and they've all leveled up beyond level 10 and have become ridiculously strong. They are enabled with the heraldry tech, and now I've already got chivalry researched and I'm currently researching gunpowder, but I still don't have any regular units that can beat unlevelled Walrlord Captains one on one...

I think they should definitely be nerfed. They are way too strong - the strongest unit in the game for a long time, it takes many techs to reach regular units that can match them and then it's not long until the next Warlord upgrade becomes available. The only units that can match them are hero units, and even some of these only manage it due to superior promotions - Warlords surpass even some of the heroes in raw strength. And any regular unit of the same tech level joined by a Great General, too.

 

[Hale_9204]

Aren't they limited units? I mean, if I remember exactly they have a national limit of 3 units, so this is why they are stronger. Obviously in a direct fight they have advantages against other units, but they're not enough fpr a war. If you want to win a war warlord captains are not enough, you need other units to support them

 

[JarlFrank]

No, they're not limited, each unit in game just increases the cost by 25%, but you can have as many of them as you want.

I'm not sure if there's an option to have limits for certain units or not before you start a game, though... if there is, I probably unchecked it, so that might be the cause of the imbalance.

They are still pretty overpowered, though, and should be nerfed, especially considering their special ability of being able to attack neutrals.

 

[Hale_9204]

Are you sure they're unlimited? Maybe you have the option "Unlimited national units" active, I'm pretty sure you can build only a few of them

 

[pepper2000]

The "Unlimited national units" option really throws the game off, and largely due to Warlord leaders. I agree that their ability to attract neutrals doesn't make a lot of sense. Units of that nature should be relatively weak, such as privateers.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

They are limited ie national units. They were specifically designed to be limited. Which is why I suggested that they be unavailable in games with the "Unlimited National Units" option on.

 

[Thunderbrd]

We can make them limited despite the option with the tag bUnlimitedException on the unitclass file. Simple. I thought it had been done already since we'd had this discussion before. I'll try to remember to take care of that.

 

[JanusTalaiini]

My biggest beef with warlords (and other hidden nationality units) is that if they make it to one of your cities, there's -nothing- you can do to get rid of them. I can kind of understand that for units like rogues and assassins (blending into the crowds), but an entire private -army- sitting in my city that I can't attack? What.

 

[JarlFrank]

It would be great to make Warlords an optional choice, if this is possible. They are one element of C2C that I don't really like that much.

 

[Yudishtira]

I had a similar situation in a previous game where I was the least advanced civ, but it didn't really matter as I had access to Warlord Chiefs and so did almost everyone else - and most armies of all the civs consisted mainly of Warlord Chiefs, because they were the strongest unit available.

I agree that this (ie. unlimited Warlord units) is almost gamebreaking if you're not expecting it. I'm just wondering if it might be worthwhile keeping it as an (albeit quirky) option.

I think the Warlord Corporal might be too strong - maybe Strength 21 might be better - but I'm not that fussed. With Archer Bombard on (and why wouldn't it be ?), I don't think the other Warlord units need nerfing.

(I'm also curious as to why Chief->Captain->Corporal: their ranks seem to be going backwards)

 

[JanusTalaiini]

It would be great to make Warlords an optional choice, if this is possible. They are one element of C2C that I don't really like that much.

Yarr, I for one would -love- these to be optional. It really changes the gameplay to have them present, and makes maintaining safe borders a real tedious chore.