[WARLORDS 2.08] Ranged Bombardment

[Yakk]

If you want AI to bombard:
Drop artillery power by half.
Give artillery a 75%->84% withdrawl chance. (75% for primitive, 80% for gunpowder, 84% for modern).
Give artillery a +100% hillls and city defence bonus. (just as strong as before)
Give artillery a +100% collateral damage bonus. (just as strong as before)

If the unit had odd strength, round down, and grow the +100% bonus's. (ie, catepult goes from 5 to 2, and gains +150% city/hills defence & collateral. The trechpult goes from 4 to 2, and gains +300% city defence, +100% city attack, +100% hills defence, +100% collateral: 8 city defence (same as before), 4 hills defence (same as before), 4 city attack (1/2 before), 4 collateral strength (same as before), 2 general attack (1/2 before)).

Replace promotions with:
Supply Train:
I: +10% heal rate in friendly/neutral lands
II: +10% heal rate everywhere
III: +10% heal rate everywhere, +10% heal to units in stack
// artillery take lots of damage when attacking. This lets the artillery "reload" faster

City Assault:
I: +40% city attack, +10% bombard defences
II: +40% city attack, +10% collateral
III: +40% city attack, +5% bombard defences, +5% collateral
// at +120%, a new catepult is a 9.6

Fire Volume:
I: +40% collateral
II: +20% strength, +50% collateral
III: +10% bombard defences, +60% collateral

Range:
I: +5% withdrawl chance, 1 extra first strike
II: +5% withdrawl chance, 1 extra first strike
III: +5% withdrawl chance, 1 extra first strike

Precision:
I: +5% bombard defences, +30% strength, 1 extra first strike
II: +5% bombard defences, +50% city/hill defences
III: +10% bombard defences, +40% collateral, +40% strength

...

Note the bonuses above are large. This is because I halved the unit's stats -- doubling of the modifiers, adding +100% at the units specialty, and halving the stats, makes a unit that is half as effective. (ie, 2 +100% +40% is the same as 4+20%).

To bombard, you simply attack with a siege unit. Your base attack will be half what it used to be. (with city attack III you get +120%, but your strength was already halved. So you are are instead at your old strength +10%.)

You have a base 75% to 84% withdrawl chance, so your unit will probably not be destroyed. Improved range III boosts this to 90% to 99% withdrawl chance.

The city and hill defence bonus' make placing artillery in a city still useful, and in the field they can be used to defend difficult terrain. However, in the open, they are extremely vunerable. Cannon can still route primitive warriors in an open field battle, but it isn't very efficient.

The goal is that AIs know how to use this kind of unit. Your cannons "lead the charge", but this really reflects bombardment. Sometimes an enemy manages to destroy one of your cannons during the battle, which is relfected by a withdrawl failure. Increased range makes it harder for the enemy to take out your catepults (represented by increased withdrawl chance).

 

[Exel]

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. I want to get away from the horrendously silly use of arty units as first-line kamikaze attackers. Even giving them high withdraw chances wont make them anything else but that.

 

[Dale]

Agreed! ..

 

[OrionVeteran]

Dale,

I added the <iDCMBombRange>1</iDCMBombRange> line to all of the following units:

1. Destroyer - Bombardment Range 1
2. Tank - Bombardment Range 1
3. Tank Panzer - Bombardment Range 1
4. Modern Armor - Bombardment Range 2

However, in a test game, the tank failed to work. Here is the fix:

Open this XML file: CIV4UnitInfos.xml

Add the following lines under the tank class: <Class>UNITCLASS_TANK</Class>

Look for this line: <UnitCombatMods/>

Replace with:

<UnitCombatMods>
<UnitCombatMod>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARMOR</UnitCombatType>
<iUnitCombatMod>50</iUnitCombatMod>
</UnitCombatMod>
</UnitCombatMods>

This worked nicely.

I have one more unit to add, but I don’t know how to code it: The Privateer

Dale, how can I add the privateer to this mod?

Very Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

 

[explorer2]

Dale-
Great work, btw.
I would dearly love to add Ranged Bombardment to a couple of existing mods I play. I don't mod in Civ4, other than occassional dinking around with XML files, so I don't know how to modify dll files.
Any help or advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

OV: Are you talking about the hidden nationality aspect of the Privateer? If so I belive that FFH2 has a Hidden nationality mod by Kael. Also the <UnitCombatMods> affects has nothing to do with Dales mod.

 

[OrionVeteran]

OV: Are you talking about the hidden nationality aspect of the Privateer? If so I belive that FFH2 has a Hidden nationality mod by Kael. Also the <UnitCombatMods> affects has nothing to do with Dales mod.

Impaler,

1. I'll lookup the Hidden Nationality mod, Thanks.

2. I respectfully must disagree about the coding. The tank was missing the code under the <UnitCombatMods> section of the subject XML file that Dale provided in his mod. Adding the lines I specified along with the <iDCMBombRange>1</iDCMBombRange> line, gave the tank ranged bombardment capability. Without the lines under <UnitCombatMods> ranged bombardment will not work for the tank. It took me a couple hours to figure that out. Compare with the German Panzer tank. You will find the code is already in place. I simply copied and pasted the code over to the tank. ...and now it works!

Very Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

 

[Exel]

I added the <iDCMBombRange>1</iDCMBombRange> line to all of the following units:

1. Destroyer - Bombardment Range 1
2. Tank - Bombardment Range 1
3. Tank Panzer - Bombardment Range 1
4. Modern Armor - Bombardment Range 2

Just an OT question: Why do you want tanks to have bombardment?

 

[OrionVeteran]

Just an OT question: Why do you want tanks to have bombardment?

Exel,

1. Tanks can attack 2 times per turn. Ranged bombardment will take up 1 turn, leaving you 1 more turn to attack.

2. You might wish to use ranged bombardment to take out a vital resource to your right and then attack the enemy on your left.

3. If you do not have enough artillery, you can use your tanks to soften up an inland city. This way you can attack without risking any damage, before you attempt to capture the city.

It's a cool feature that realistically portrays tank warfare tactics.

Very Respectfully,



Orion Veteran

 

[Dale]

I hope you only gave it to modern armour. Even with rocket-assist shells, you're still pushing the boundary of armour firing into an adjacent plot.

There's no possible way that early tanks could fire into an adjacent plot.

 

[Chazcon]

Dale, huge thanks once again for your Ranged Field Bombardment mod. YOU got me into SDK modding and I can't even play Civ IV anymore without this mod. In my mind you 'saved' Civ IV with this, and Firaxis would be nuts to not include it in Civ V. Nice work!

 

[Exel]

It's a cool feature that realistically portrays tank warfare tactics.

Well that's just it, because even if it undoubtedly is very effective, I can't see it being realistic by any stretch of imagination.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Well that's just it, because even if it undoubtedly is very effective, I can't see it being realistic by any stretch of imagination.

Easy guys! I'm just toying around with this mod, like a kid in a candy store. The ranged bombardment is a realistic capability for modern armor, but I am compelled to admit, that it is not a realistic feature for early tanks. Nor, is it realistic for the destroyer. Fact is we need a couple of more ships added to the game:

The Privateer and the crusier. The crusier should have ranged bombardment, Likewise the privateer. Anyone care to create these two units for this mod? My programming skills with DLLs, SDK and XML are in the infancy stage, as compared to you experts out there.

Very Respectfully,



Orion Veteran

 

[Exel]

The ranged bombardment is a realistic capability for modern armor ..

No, no it really isn't.

 

[OrionVeteran]

No, no it really isn't.

Exel,

I respectfully disagree. Ranged bombardment is a realistic capability for Modern Armor. Do you know anything about the range of the 120mm Ammo used with Modern Armor? New advancements in 120mm rounds can fire at targets beyond the line of sight 8 kilometers away. That's 5 miles! Please Read, to learn more:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/erm.htm

Targets that get destroyed may never know what hit them. Based upon this information it is clear the ranged bombardment capability applies to Modern tanks.

Compare the range of Modern Armor with a Trebuchet. The Trebuchet can fire very heavy projectiles up to 270 meters (300 yards) away. ...Not even 1/4 mile away, yet, in CIV4, the trebuchet gets a 1 square range. At the very least, modern armor should have a range of at least 1 square all around.

Modern Artillery: The M198 howitzer can fire a 155mm conventional projectile 22.5 kilometers (14 miles) away. With advanced shells, even further.

Battleship: An Iowa class Battleship has 16 inch guns that can fire projectiles weighing from 1,900 to 2,700 pounds (850 to 1,200 kg) at a maximum speed of 2,690 ft/s (820 m/s) up to 24 miles (39 km). At maximum range the projectile spends almost 1½ minutes in flight.

IMO, these units should get the following range bombardment capability in CIV4.

Trebuchet - 1
Modern Armor - 1
Artillery - 2
Battleship -2

Very Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

 

[Chazcon]

We are getting lost in the minutiae here I'm afraid. While a 120mm gun can actually fire a projectile out to X range, when mounted in a tank that is part of a modern armored division it is never employed as artillery for several reasons.

A tank is a weapons platform used to deliver direct fire on enemy targets. It is not equipped with the proper fire control equipment to employ indirect fire like artillery. Nor is the infrastructure of a tank unit (armored battalion or division) designed to employ tanks as indirect fire weapons systems. Artillery fire is directed and controlled by forward observers (either ground or air) or in emergencies, by commanders of combat units. Tank crews are not a part of this fire control communications net, nor are they trained to utilize their weapons in an indirect fire capacity.

There is some cross-training in some armies, but the experiment has never been sucessful or effective on the battlefield.

Also, let's not forget that Civilization IV does not have a strict scale in the traditional sense of the word as it applies to military simulation games. It is an entertainment vehicle and requires some suspension of disbelief. It works very well as a game. All of us like numbers and statistics, especially 18-24 year old males for some reason, but to Civ IV factual rationale does not often apply.

It makes perfect sense for cruisers, battleships, and modern artillery to have the ability to lob shells 2 tiles away. But it's not justified for any other units in my opinion, especially not direct-fire weapons systems.

 

[Exel]

Exel,

I respectfully disagree. Ranged bombardment is a realistic capability for Modern Armor. Do you know anything about the range of the 120mm Ammo used with Modern Armor? New advancements in 120mm rounds can fire at targets beyond the line of sight 8 kilometers away. That's 5 miles! Please Read, to learn more:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/erm.htm

Targets that get destroyed may never know what hit them. Based upon this information it is clear the ranged bombardment capability applies to Modern tanks.

You don't need to teach me tank capabilities. I know. The maximum practical engagement range for most tanks is 4000 meters, with few exceptions a click or two above that. APFSDS projectiles can theoretically be lobbed over 100 km ballistic, but that doesn't make an MBT a valid indirect fire platform. If you give tanks a ranged attack, then artillery should have a range of like 8 tiles, battleships even more. And Chazcon made the most important point - tanks are direct attack weapons with no ability whatsoever to fire beyond line-of-sight. The only way I could justify ranged attacks for tanks is if you wanted to simulate self-propelled artillery with them, but imho they should deserve a unit of their own.

 

[OrionVeteran]

It makes perfect sense for cruisers, battleships, and modern artillery to have the ability to lob shells 2 tiles away. But it's not justified for any other units in my opinion, especially not direct-fire weapons systems.

Chazcon,

Evidently you don't understand the concept of beyond line of sight targeting. Many modern tanks have data link capability that provide beyond line of sight targeting; just like artillery. Why would a modern tank fire beyond line of sight unless it is trying to hit something? What a waste of limitted ammunition.

One of the greatest things about Civillization games is the ability to adjust and modify the game to your particular style of play. If you don't like ranged bombardment for Modern Armor, then don't change this mod to give Modern Armor the capability.

Although this game is not based upon strict reality, if you are not aware of unit capabilities and statistics for combat and defense, you are going to get pile drived by someone who does. Using unit statistics to evaluate the success or failure of a military operation is CRITICAL to winning this game. Somehow, I don't believe numbers and statistics are limited only to 18-24 year old males. I suppose people would think this mod would not be very important, if their strategy is to aceive a diplomatic or cultural win. I, on the other hand, am an iron fisted war monger.

If you noticed my last post, I suggested Modern Armor be given ranged fire capability for only 1 tile in all directions, not 2. One square away is definitely in the line of sight, direct fire attack. ...And we both know Modern Armor has the capability to fire like artillery does, limited only by it's range.

Very Respectfully,


Orion Veteran

 

[Exel]

Evidently you don't understand the concept of beyond line of sight targeting. Many modern tanks have data link capability that provide beyond line of sight targeting; just like artillery.

Name one MBT that can engage beyond its line-of-sight.

 

[Snake Pliskeen]

How to add this mod to another one if possible?