Warlords Patch Suggestions

please increase the pentagon to 3xp, i hate getting it now, only to have to add great generals everywhere to get level three units off the production line.
it's still good if you're not running any agressive civics because you get two promos instead of one but if you want to be an aggressive swine it's not so useful anymore unless you go charismatic. I know they added stables but by the time of pentagon they're redundant anyhew.
 
If you capture a city of a civilization that is more technologically advanced than you are, you should get some sort of research bonus toward the advance(s) they have but you don't. It should be determined by how big that city is, distance from capital and number of scientific buildings in the city.
 
If a rival asks you to ally with them in a war, there is only yes or no options. Add a 'care to negotiate' option where you can ask them to give you something in return.

This has to be changed! If you ask them to ally with you you almost always have to offer something, unfair that it's not the same for them!!
 
One thing i feel could be fixed in the patch, it would be pretty easy as its not a bug as such, but on the longer game setting's Epic , Marathon the XP needed for a Great General is to high, on Marathon for example you need 90 XP not 30 for your first Great General, although you get more turns you dont get to build 3 times the number of units as there much more expensive an as such its very unlikely you'l get 3 times the normal games combat experiance, so you end up with very few great generals, it would be good if this could be balanced out more so you get roughly the same number of generals no matter what game speed you use
 
Not sure if my list below is for a patch or for a future expansion!!...
(sorry, sorry, sorry if what I suggest has already been proposed many times! Reading part of the forum, I saw nothing articulated in the same way, but this forum is sooooo big!...)

I-Vassals on their own will
a- A vassal will not start a war and push the master into war against will. Can not declare war without first denunciating vassal treaty with master. Master has the choice between accepting or refusing the end of vassalage (hence supporting all consequences).
b- War declared on a vassal by another civilization: the master has the choice, under penalty of gold, units or research to the attacked vassal, to stop the vassalage agreement and not join the war. Penalty of units means that the master must provide the vassal with a certain amount of military units (gift) for
c- under penalty of gold (proportional to the number of “research” points needed for this discovery), a master can directly change or decide the research of a vassal. In this case, as the “fine” has been paid, the master inherits also of the research as soon as it is found by the vassal.
d- if they propose to be vassal, all bad red diplomatic points are reset at 0, against a fee proposed to the master (research, gold, goods).

II- Vassals, after capitulation
a- under penalty of gold, a master can directly change the research of a vassal. In this case, as the “fine” has been paid, the master inherits also of the research as soon as it is found by the vassal

III- All Vassals
a- may not trade with civilizations that are not already trading with master, i.e. all vassals must and can only trade with the same civilizations already trading with master. A new vassal denunciating a trade agreement with a civ that is not “registered” with the master, does not have any diplomatic penalty with this civilization. This includes goods and all treaty (including open borders).
b- joint work force (perhaps already existing!!): automated workers from vassals and masters improve all tiles, following options set by the master (if the player), i.e. forest, old improvements, and do as if master and vassals are the same civ.
c- Vassals can be specialized in military, growth/economy, research, culture: the master can order a vassal to choose a development path that is consistent with her/his strategy. Some vassals will be more aggressive, others more mercantilist, etc…

IV- Neighbors
a- new treaty: exchange of work forces. Idle workers from both contiguous countries can work tiles of the other country, automatically and according to working rules adopted by the country where the work takes place (chop or not forest, etc.). A worker from a foreign country beneficiates of the technology of the host country, the time the worker works into this country. This treaty can have 2 levels: exchange of idle workers, or rent of workers (idle or active): workers are then treated like goods. At least Slavery must be known.
b- Any attack done by you or another civ from inside another foreign border of a third civ triggers diplomatic and/or military retaliation against the invader/attacker or the victim (depending on diplomatic relations). Example: you have a city just at the border with Bismarck. Bismarck has neutral agreement with you but open border with the attacker Shaka with who you are at war: Shaka attacks your city from within Bismark’s border but you can not reply at it would mean declaring also war on Bismarck!!
All this depend on agreements with the third party: you are at war against B, you are attacked from territory C
case 1: C has open border with B but not with you. C must choose:
…allowing the attack, in this case C must declare war on you.
…cancelling the attack from B: C cancels then the open border with B (at the risk of deteriorating badly relations with B!...)
case 2: C has open border with B and also with you. C can not choose and all attacks from within C’s border are totally forbidden
case 3: C has open border with attacker B but C is a vassal of another civilization. C can not choose and case 1 or 2 are applied according to the status of the master with you (master has open border with you or not)
exception: rule does not apply to submarines, BUT applies to bombers/fighters when the air path must cross a neutral area for attacking in direct line: range is then decreased if aircrafts must go around a neutral territory.

New improvements
a- border posts: can be built on any border tile (except mountain). Act as a fort and suppress other improvements; increase trade outcome of a tile (+3?); add +1 visibility to units in this post; bonus against barbarian; can not be used or crossed by spies. Needs: Currency & Code of Laws
b- custom offices: in all cities with airport or with harbor. Add 50% of trade route incomes; add +1 population but also + 1 unhappiness and +2 unhealthy (afflux of immigrants)
c- new World Wonder: NGOs (Non Governmental Organizations, for helping defavorised countries with low-paid highly-skilled voluntaries): It gives + 6 NGOs (like “Hits”); benefit: all “bad log” with a civilization receiving a NGO is reset (ex.: the “you have refused to trade with us” that you keep against you for ages!!!), or at least is reduced by -6 for each NGO. We do not add more green points, but decrease the red bad points. Technology needed: Medicine

New trades
a- Bad red diplomatic points can be reduced by paying damages/interest to the civ, in gold, research, goods, or even cities or units. Each red line can be negociated (it is not a bulk negociation for all red points). Needs: Currency, Code of laws and Guilds.
b- Workers: possible to buy (not rent or exchange like for neighbors treaty) and worker is 100% yours. Needs: discovery of Slavery, Guilds
b- new resource: Salt, available after discovering equitation. Obsolete with discovery of Industrialization. This resource gives +1 gold and +1 happiness (or +1 hammer).


New behavior for units, new units
a- spy, or : can also add poison or terrorist acts (reduce health, happiness and population). Benefits: add +10 green diplomacy points with all civs that are annoyed or furious with the attacked civ. But add -10 to all civs friends or pleased with the attacked civ, and -4 to all neutral civs (cautious), and 0 to all civs unknown yet. This can only be done if civic is with a State Religion or Police state.
b- Explorer: can not be killed by barbarians. Explorers are almost pointless units. In huge maps, where barbarians are making cities on undiscovered continents, explorers can do nothing as they are immediately destroyed. This would give an advantage over scouts, and offer them a better role in a game.
b- Diplomat: produced like missionaries (max 3). When stationed in a capital, help reducing the bad red diplomatic points turn after turn (ex: 1% less red point each turn a diplomat is present in a capital). Cannot be killed except by Barbarians. Behave like a spy in city at war but can not do spy mission! Can not be moved during war time in countries at war with you: must stay in position during the time of the war, except if you require, by diplomatic screen, the diplomat to be repatriated: in this case, you have an instant -5 red bad diplomatic point added to your enemy log against you.

New leaders
a- Great Barbarian: especially with games with large/huge maps, some continents can be populated with many barbarian cities.
…If more than, say, 4 barbarian cities are created in a continent, and your civ is in contact with one of those cities, a diplomacy screen exists with a Great Barbarian
…no civic proposal, no goods proposal, no treaty except cease fire (no Peace Treaties)
…can only be bribed with gold or a military technology (no growth, no economic or scientific) or military units or cities
…can propose slaves (workers), maps and cities for sale and at high price (for just giving the feeling that it is better to destroy them than deal with them!).
… they can also propose skilled explorers for hire. (see modig for Explorers)
…The Great Barbarian can NOT be contacted at will via diplomacy screen, he/she (walkiry) contacts you when he/she feels the needs, and only when you have a unit against a Barbarian cities (barbarian units in the wild are just illiterates…). Especially useful on large/huge maps and marathon play!!
b- FREE leader: a generic leader, available in Custom Games only, with Sid or Soren’s face or a female pretty-but-tough face (!), and you choose the associations (philo, aggress, fin, cult, etc…) AND the starting 2 tecs.
…Other specifications are taken randomly from another civ (special building/unit, color) at game start, or can be also choosen by player (in this case, take the whole civ spec: special unit+color+civ name+city names).
…For choosing this customized leader, game difficulty can NOT be less than Monarch (or perhaps Emperor)! This allows what-if games, and test the highest challenges for those who can not do it with a normal game (99% of us??...)
 
Excuse my ignorance, but is this just a hypothetical patch, or does it have a planned release date
 
Ligs, if you talk about my post, it is not the detail of what the next patch will do, but just my stupid suggestions:crazyeye: !
Regarding now when a patch for Warlord will come, there are still bug reports being posted, and Firaxis continues investigating all those reports for making the best possible patch. I am afraid no date yet... But YES, a patch is in the pipe, and Firaxis tests their pre-patch with all files sent to them related to bug reports.
 
jprc said:
Not sure if my list below is for a patch or for a future expansion!!...
(sorry, sorry, sorry if what I suggest has already been proposed many times! Reading part of the forum, I saw nothing articulated in the same way, but this forum is sooooo big!...)

... Most of your suggestions are ideas for EXPANSIONS, not patches. The fundemental aspect of the game should not change with a patch, it just should be fine tuned. I do think Vassals need a tuning as right now Capitulation is pretty useless with the increased maintance costs.

Phyr_Negator said:
One more fort Idea - 3x3 square with fort in the center act as having railroads after discovery of engeneering.
Overall number of forts are limited and can be increased via tech discovery or wonders. If number of forts exceeded due to some effects(culture expansion and gained enemy fort) then each exceeding ford get gold upkeed.

I'm not a fan of this. I'd prefer a fort to be defensive, not movement based. A fort has nothing to do with railroads. I like the suggestions of zone of control, slower enemy movement, keep trees and fort bonus, give increased sight, and the ability to upgrade the fort depending on how long someone is stationed there.


Overall I wish the patch fixed all the bugs and changed capitulation and gave uses for things rarely used (forts and woodsman upgrade to name a few). In a perfect world they would upgrade the AI and add new units, but I'm sure they are saving that for our $ in an expansion pack. I'll probably start a thread discussing expansion pack ideas soon (I'm sure there are a few around already). We should vote on some of these ideas and get a general consenus of what people want, then I'm sure Firaxis will consider implementing them. As it stands now it seems most people have a problem with only forts, woodsman, and how vassalage works.
 
NikNak said:
Now that Take 2 is in a bit of trouble, does this affect our chances of future patches?

Probably not. They have seen it coming for awhile and as long as Firaxis is still around they should be able to develop patches. The current patch that is coming out mid October is almost done and they are just putting the final touches on it so I doubt that would be interrupted. It just means that Take Two will probably lose value in its stock which could hurt the company financially but overall the problem could probably be solved by just filling some paperwork and paying some bills... however, if it turns out there are reasons behind all this besides the obvious then we could be in trouble.
 
NikNak said:
Now that Take 2 is in a bit of trouble, does this affect our chances of future patches?
Anyway, I think Take 2 is a shame.
Starting a nice Civ game, their flashy noisy logo is not what Civ estheticism is about and it is polluting our beloved environment.
They are publishers of the ugly Grand Thieft: St andrea where killing cops and prostitutes is the rule, not even talking about the “hot coffee” scandal.
Associating from the start the elegance of Firaxis with those dirty merchant is like seeing a Mozart Opera funded by the MS13 gang…
 
jprc said:
Anyway, I think Take 2 is a shame.
Starting a nice Civ game, their flashy noisy logo is not what Civ estheticism is about and it is polluting our beloved environment.
They are publishers of the ugly Grand Thieft: St andrea where killing cops and prostitutes is the rule, not even talking about the “hot coffee” scandal.
Associating from the start the elegance of Firaxis with those dirty merchant is like seeing a Mozart Opera funded by the MS13 gang…

Hey, GTA is a great series! And Take2 isn't really in economic trouble are they? Didn't they just forget to submit some thingy for the stock market? But I do agree that Take2's logo is a wee bit obnoxious.
 
turquoiseninja said:
Hey, GTA is a great series! And Take2 isn't really in economic trouble are they? Didn't they just forget to submit some thingy for the stock market? But I do agree that Take2's logo is a wee bit obnoxious.

I was certainly a bit excessive, however GTA is a bit like alcohol/Dutch-autorized-drugs: it is fine if used with moderation by grown people who know well when they are out of bounds, and dangerous for weak minds or places where war/death is a daily component. It looks great for some local cultures, and for some others, especially in places where I see daily people dying like where I live/work, it is a dangerous luxury. When I see in front of me 12 years old kids with Kalashnikovs, having already killed or tortured some, my thin red line is not positioned at the same place as most of you in comfortable northern hemisphere...
But it is off-topic, and can be discussed endlessly as the only problem with some games is to know where this thin red line is, and it is very very dependent on each person on this planet...
Going back on-topic, perhaps then can we suggest the inclusion in the patch of a more elegant Take2 starting cinematic and “sound”, more in phase with Civs series and spirit?...
 
-nerf a bit state property, make merchantilism stronger, ambienalism also should be made stronger
-forts could get a 50% defense but no more, with Warlords they are a bit more useful than in vanilla but not so much.Or forts can get a bonus for healing units.
-fix earth24civs bug in city screen
-fix bug in vassal civs
-i don't count that firaxis will improve modern era naval units (give submarines advantages against battleships,give battleships bombardment option on land tiles) but hope is last to die
-introduce some of the new resources in scenario playable also in normal games
-give animals a different flag from barbs
-make some of the maps playable for civ4 available also for warlords
 
jprc said:
Going back on-topic, perhaps then can we suggest the inclusion in the patch of a more elegant Take2 starting cinematic and “sound”, more in phase with Civs series and spirit?...

Uh -- or you can just remove the cinema in your directory and it won't play... or heck, make your own and replace the Take Two cinema with yours.
(Default Location: C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\Art\Movies\Intros )


marioflag said:
-nerf a bit state property, make merchantilism stronger, ambienalism also should be made stronger
-forts could get a 50% defense but no more, with Warlords they are a bit more useful than in vanilla but not so much.Or forts can get a bonus for healing units.
-fix earth24civs bug in city screen
-fix bug in vassal civs
-i don't count that firaxis will improve modern era naval units (give submarines advantages against battleships,give battleships bombardment option on land tiles) but hope is last to die
-introduce some of the new resources in scenario playable also in normal games
-give animals a different flag from barbs
-make some of the maps playable for civ4 available also for warlords

Change in naval combat would be nice, but I think that is saved for an expansion pack that expands on semi-modern and modern combat / technology / units. The civics are pretty fine the way they are in my opinion, most people don't go for Enviromentalism (Ambientalism to all the weird people) because they don't understand its powerful usage. It is pretty late game, but combining Enviromentalism with Biology (more farms) results in huge population booms and cities with the excess of 20 people. Overall I think all of the Economy Civs are underpowered, although a cap on State Property (depending on map size) would be nice. Introducing Salt would be a good resource (water tiles do need more) but I think they will be included in an expansion pack.

In the end the only reason for a patch is to fix bugs and balance the game, primarily for online and competitive use. If you don't like the game a certain way in single player, just modify it to suit the way you want to play.
 
theres a big problem with lag in Future games hope they fix this with the comming patch by lag i mean game not connection lag in MP games
 
Most choices are not recorded by the game when creating a new game (custom or not). We always need to set back at random the sea level or weather, a given number of civs (custom game), last civ played, default option retained, etc...
only a small part of it is accessible in the ini file, and it is static.

the game should always recall all options already selected by a player in a previous game, when creating a new game, regular or custom
 
Differentiate the art tag name of main menu screen image resource between expansions.
Vanilla and Warlords uses different image for main menu backgroune image( Earth picture vs a military general picture),
but they uses same art tag "MAINMENU_SCENE" with different path value depending on expansion.
So merging two "Assert/XML/CIV4ArtDefines_Interface.xml" of vanilla and warlords will cause unreconsileable conflict between version.
So I suggest to change art tag name of Warlords version to name like "MAINMENU_SCENE_WARLORDS".

By changing this, it will be much easier to merge "XML/CIV4ArtDefines_Interface.xml" files
 
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but every time Mehmed's mug tries to come up on the screen (either selecting him to play at the beginning, or when you meet him in the field and he pops up for diplomacy), my Civ game crashes.

I think that ought to be checked on for the patch.

Anyone else have this problem?
 
I haven't had any crashes but the game is noticeably slower. This was like back to pre-patch days on vanilla Civ. They need to fix this ASAP.
 
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