Warlords Patch Suggestions

[bassist2119]

My one pleading request for a patch is allowing monastaries to be built after they become obsolete... PLEASE! 1.) I was a fan of spiral minaret in vanilla and it's now doubled, plus there's now U. of Sank. Even without the 10% research bonus, they're useful for this strat. And more importantly, 2.) Ever have a religion spread to you after Sci Meth? I have... EVERY SINGLE GAME! This absolutely stinks as there's no way to spread it without going OrgRel, but if you do that, you'll want to pick a religion to maximize it's result (make up for thousands of lost hammers and gold from late game anarchy) but gain a s#*tload of religious enemies in the process.

If noone shares my views on this, could a modder please leave me detailed instructions on doing this to my own game?

 

[Vietcong]

honestly, do you think you are a civ master?
a swordsman unit with 5 attck is weaker than a swordsman unit with 6 attack.
do you see how that works? not needing iron is negligible as an advantage.
what the hell kind of empire are you running when that is an advantage?

the swords the aztechs used whear realy weak vs iron weapons.
if u swang an obsidian sword at me, and i blocked with a iron sword, or u hit my iron armor, ur sword whould shater into bits.. thay even did a study of aztech weaponry, and even tho it was good, and chould very easly slice flesh open, it chouldnt ever get past iron.. infact, the sword shatered into bits.. *the obsidian one shatered, that is*

 

[Tekee]

Ah But I don't like the Azetec Unique Unit, i will usually get Iron and besides their lower strength stinks so they just arn't worth it no matter how historically unaccurate it is I want them to have 6 strength and the don't need iron to be made ;/

 

[Watiggi]

It's not about being able to hook up iron. If I was hooked up to iron, I would still prefer to build Jaguars. Why? Because my captured cities could then start producing Jaguars right after capture regardless of whether it is hooked up to iron or not. It turns every city you capture into a factory that pumps out more city taking Jaguars. The -1 in strength pales in comparison to that simply because the system is designed so that 2 or more weaker units can destroy one much stronger unit anyway. So it's not like a weaker unit is ineffective, but to get the ability to pump out many of them - far more than if you were using Axemen or Swordsmen - makes it a powerful unit/strategy.

As for Imperialisitic, I think a +50% Inflated power rating would be good as it would allow the imperialistic leader to have more weight with regards to other leaders in diplomacy like getting a capitulation, getting successful demands, etc - especially if the changes below are made.

I also think the leaders wanting to join a vassal should be much more focused on the owners power rating rather than the leader liking them. Think about it: if you were a leader seeking protection, would you rather someone you like or someone you don't like but is much more powerful and actually capable of protecting you on your side? I personally would rather the later. I can see why this isn't the case because otherwise the civ that is most powerful would become even more powerful with the added vassals. But, if the Imperialisitic trait had the inflated power rating bonus, then it could artificially put itself in a position whereby it could form vassals and gain capitulation much easier. I think that reflects Imperialistism quite a lot: An increased ability to unify others under your rule and an increased ability to impose your views on others. When I think imperialism, I think power and influence.

 

[Dionysius]

the swords the aztechs used whear realy weak vs iron weapons.
if u swang an obsidian sword at me, and i blocked with a iron sword, or u hit my iron armor, ur sword whould shater into bits.. thay even did a study of aztech weaponry, and even tho it was good, and chould very easly slice flesh open, it chouldnt ever get past iron.. infact, the sword shatered into bits.. *the obsidian one shatered, that is*

well, i supose that explain why they are so weak as a swordsman. but still, they should have it replacing a different unit if its only going to hinder the civ.
maybe Axeman, same stats as axeman, 25% attack in forest and woodsman I,
doesnt require copper.

 

[rlohmann]

The Great Wall is an interesting addition, but the graphics can be cause for confusion. Even though all of your cities on that continent are protected against barbs, the image of the Wall goes only as far as the limits of your territory at the time you built it. After only a few turns after that, the borders expand and some of your territory is inside the Wall and some is outside.

Redrawing the Wall after every border expansion would probably be too much of a drain on resources, but perhaps a simpler graphic--a barbed-wire-style line, perhaps--could be redrawn every time a border moved.

 

[Dionysius]

The Great Wall is an interesting addition, but the graphics can be cause for confusion. Even though all of your cities on that continent are protected against barbs, the image of the Wall goes only as far as the limits of your territory at the time you built it. After only a few turns after that, the borders expand and some of your territory is inside the Wall and some is outside.

Redrawing the Wall after every border expansion would probably be too much of a drain on resources, but perhaps a simpler graphic--a barbed-wire-style line, perhaps--could be redrawn every time a border moved.

i thought it only stops barbs from going across the current culture border at the time of completion, and new territory over the wall is unprotected.

 

[ZB2]

i am totally against the combining of the guerilla and woodsman promotions.
"blah blah something about everyone being specialist combat units is a bad idea. "

thats the idea is it not? that certain units have specialist abilities

i want that woodsman III promotion, so you can attack 25% into hills.

 

[Bongo-Bongo]

For the Jaguar, maybe it could be given 2 for movement, as well as the mobility promotion. Or perhaps it could be given +25% bonuses againts melee and archery units?

The Praet definetley needs to be nerfed, whether it sees production costs being increased further, or being reduced to strength 7 and given 10% when attacking cities as has been suggested would help balance it better.

Forts also need work. At the moment, they are almost useless. Give them a zone of control and they will be worth building again.

 

[The Great Apple]

I'm not sure Jags or Prets will be changed - surely if they were going to change them they would have done so for Warlords, and not for a later patch. They've been like they are for a while now.

 

[Dionysius]

personally i hope the praetorians remain as they are. the roman empire excelled in part because their military was way the hell stronger than the phalanx and other armies of the day. civ4 isnt meant to be totally accurate, but rome needs a good UU.

 

[chronicdog]

Forts suck currently. I never build them, nobody builds them.

Give us more reasons to build forts. Protecting adjacent tiles from pillaging, or healing units in adjacent tiles, slowing down enemy movement in adjacent tiles, something please make this building worthy of existence.

Also, THROW THE PEACENICKS A BONE. Warlords made warmongers so much more powerful, as if being agressive in regular civ wasn't powerful enough????

Give peaceful civs some real reasons to STAY PEACEFUL, like +1 happiness bonus in all cities for every 100 turns you do not declare war. I dunno, I'm not a game designer but the peacenicks need some sort of bonus to compensate for NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE. Extra culture or happiness seems like the best solution. Switzerland would not survive in a Warlords World. But Switzerland HAS survived in our world, and not because they're sitting on a huge pile of oil that they trade with everyone.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Forts suck currently. I never build them, nobody builds them.

Give us more reasons to build forts. Protecting adjacent tiles from pillaging, or healing units in adjacent tiles, slowing down enemy movement in adjacent tiles, something please make this building worthy of existence.

Also, THROW THE PEACENICKS A BONE. Warlords made warmongers so much more powerful, as if being agressive in regular civ wasn't powerful enough????

Give peaceful civs some real reasons to STAY PEACEFUL, like +1 happiness bonus in all cities for every 100 turns you do not declare war. I dunno, I'm not a game designer but the peacenicks need some sort of bonus to compensate for NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE. Extra culture or happiness seems like the best solution. Switzerland would not survive in a Warlords World. But Switzerland HAS survived in our world, and not because they're sitting on a huge pile of oil that they trade with everyone.

No they have ****oo clocks, delicious chocolate, and banks where organized crime can anonymously store their money, plus of couse beautiful scenery


With apologies to Swiss readers......

 

[yavoon]

personally i hope the praetorians remain as they are. the roman empire excelled in part because their military was way the hell stronger than the phalanx and other armies of the day. civ4 isnt meant to be totally accurate, but rome needs a good UU.

using that logic the keshik shouldn't suck the goat balls it does now.

 

[Gherald]

using that logic the keshik shouldn't suck the goat balls it does now.

Indeed, and it should be a knight (using that logic)

 

[yavoon]

Indeed, and it should be a knight (using that logic)

not really. it used all the tech of the horse archer, its just the mongols weren't technologically advanced.

 

[Dionysius]

not really. it used all the tech of the horse archer, its just the mongols weren't technologically advanced.

it was from them knight era. and the mongols picked up technology fast on their conquest of asia, take a look at the rhyes of civilization* thread on this.


*not a fantasy mod, this aims for historical accuracy.

 

[Lanthanide]

Here are some suggestions to help improve the 'less useful' traits. These are mainly 'icing on the cake' changes, but they do help round out the traits and help them to compete much better with the others. In the case of creative, it turns the trait from being an 'early game expansion-only' trait to one that will last the whole game and is especially useful for cultural victories.

Creative - artist specialists give 4 GPP instead of 3. This means 25 turns for your first artist instead of 34. 13 turns if you are Creative + Philisophical (apparently no leaders are, though). This obviously gives a large boost for anyone aiming for a cultural victory. This means in the time that it takes a non-cultural civ to get 6 GA via specialists alone, you will have gotten 7. This also gives you much more flexibility if you just need to get 1 or 2 artists, you don't have to spend as long using the artist specialists but can swap over to something else like scientists.

Expansive - +1 food from city centre. This helps to make less viable areas (lots of jungle/desert) easier to work as you've got more of a safety net available and helps your cities to grow faster. It also means that late in the game you could end up with an extra 1 pop in a particular city that another non-expansive civ may otherwise not get. Possibly this could be bumped up to +2 in city centre when an appropriate technology has been researched 1/2 way through the game - civil service or education? I think Biology is a bit late, but maybe others would prefer that.

Organised - either +1 hammer from city centre, or possibly +1 hammer from engineers or +1 GPP from engineers, hard to say. This goes along with the idea that organised civilizations are better able to work efficiently and organise (well duh) themselves when it comes to public construction efforts. While another civ might be bumbling around with the blueprints, the organised civ has already started construction on the foundations. +1 hammer from city centre means they always get the bonus, but the bonus never improves. Granting +1 from engineer is similar for most of the game - for a long time you can only have 1 engineer specialist with a forge. Later in the game you start to benefit from this more as more engineer spots become available. Alternatively, the 1 extra GPP would help mean that this civ will get more GEs than most others (if they try), however I'm not really sure if this belongs with Organised as its more of an Industrial type bonus. To be clear - I am suggesting only 1 of these 3 bonuses be added, but I am unsure as to which is the best path to be taken for this one.

Spiritual - +1 GPP per priest. This simply lets you get your prophets out quicker - you can either focus on getting lots of them for multiple religions/shrines, or get lots of them for the techs they give out, or simply use it to get the first 1 or 2 quicker and then swap to something more useful like scientists or whatever.

 

[yavoon]

it was from them knight era. and the mongols picked up technology fast on their conquest of asia, take a look at the rhyes of civilization* thread on this.


*not a fantasy mod, this aims for historical accuracy.

doesn't mean the keshik used knight technology. the mongols borrowed a lot of things, but the compound bow and the stirrup are both horse archer level technologies. if u want to give the mongols some special siege unit, u can put that at engineering, because that was the most important thing they borrowed. and its rather irrelevant that the mongols conquered ppl in the 13th century. it is more relevant what technology the keshik used.

 

[yavoon]

Here are some suggestions to help improve the 'less useful' traits. These are mainly 'icing on the cake' changes, but they do help round out the traits and help them to compete much better with the others. In the case of creative, it turns the trait from being an 'early game expansion-only' trait to one that will last the whole game and is especially useful for cultural victories.

Creative - artist specialists give 4 GPP instead of 3. This means 25 turns for your first artist instead of 34. 13 turns if you are Creative + Philisophical (apparently no leaders are, though). This obviously gives a large boost for anyone aiming for a cultural victory. This means in the time that it takes a non-cultural civ to get 6 GA via specialists alone, you will have gotten 7. This also gives you much more flexibility if you just need to get 1 or 2 artists, you don't have to spend as long using the artist specialists but can swap over to something else like scientists.

Expansive - +1 food from city centre. This helps to make less viable areas (lots of jungle/desert) easier to work as you've got more of a safety net available and helps your cities to grow faster. It also means that late in the game you could end up with an extra 1 pop in a particular city that another non-expansive civ may otherwise not get. Possibly this could be bumped up to +2 in city centre when an appropriate technology has been researched 1/2 way through the game - civil service or education? I think Biology is a bit late, but maybe others would prefer that.

Organised - either +1 hammer from city centre, or possibly +1 hammer from engineers or +1 GPP from engineers, hard to say. This goes along with the idea that organised civilizations are better able to work efficiently and organise (well duh) themselves when it comes to public construction efforts. While another civ might be bumbling around with the blueprints, the organised civ has already started construction on the foundations. +1 hammer from city centre means they always get the bonus, but the bonus never improves. Granting +1 from engineer is similar for most of the game - for a long time you can only have 1 engineer specialist with a forge. Later in the game you start to benefit from this more as more engineer spots become available. Alternatively, the 1 extra GPP would help mean that this civ will get more GEs than most others (if they try), however I'm not really sure if this belongs with Organised as its more of an Industrial type bonus. To be clear - I am suggesting only 1 of these 3 bonuses be added, but I am unsure as to which is the best path to be taken for this one.

Spiritual - +1 GPP per priest. This simply lets you get your prophets out quicker - you can either focus on getting lots of them for multiple religions/shrines, or get lots of them for the techs they give out, or simply use it to get the first 1 or 2 quicker and then swap to something more useful like scientists or whatever.

organized is plenty strong.