Warlords- What is it good for, absolutely nothing ugh!

[Sahkuhnder]

On a price per entertainment value basis PC games have always been an extremely good value.

How many hours have you and will you play civ4? Divide that by the cost.

Has anyone taken the family to a two-hour movie lately?

 

[King Flevance]

Has anyone taken the family to a two-hour movie lately?

Technically this comparison is off though.Has anyone bought a new DvD for their family recently? To have legal ownership of said movie? $14.99-19.99 is price to be able to watch the movie whenever you wish for the rest of your life. Every time you watch it price/hour goes down. Movies are way cheaper as the media doesn't have to be able to be interactive.

How much would you pay someone to let you play Civ 4 for 2 hrs? I only go to the movies for special movies and usually only if they make it to IMAX. The prices are rediculous so they better pamper me for 2 hours too.

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Technically this comparison is off though.Has anyone bought a new DvD for their family recently? To have legal ownership of said movie? $14.99-19.99 is price to be able to watch the movie whenever you wish for the rest of your life. Every time you watch it price/hour goes down. Movies are way cheaper as the media doesn't have to be able to be interactive.

How much would you pay someone to let you play Civ 4 for 2 hrs? I only go to the movies for special movies and usually only if they make it to IMAX. The prices are rediculous so they better pamper me for 2 hours too.

Fair enough. Let's check the math.

For discussion lets say your average DVD you purchased gets watched 5 times. Two hour movie x 5 viewings = 10 hours of enjoyment / $15 = $1.50 per hour.

Civ4 is at amazon for $45. To match the value of your average DVD movie you would need to play civ for $45 / $1.50 = 30 hours. I've played my civ game much more than that and will no doubt play it for a few hundred more hours over the coming years.

Movie theaters are just one of my pet peeves for poor value. If you mean 'pampered' as in noisy misbehaved kids, inconsiderate people that talk throughout the movie and ringing cell-phones...

IMAX is so amazing it's worth the trip and doesn't cost much more than a regular old-fashoned movie theater ticket does.

 

[Armorydave]

Video games still provide far more value for me than a movie purchased on DVD. Lets say I watch a 90 minute movie purchased for $15 an average of 5 times (that is high for me but I know some people like watching movies many times). That is 7.5 hours of entertainment for $15 or $2 an hour. Compare that to Civ 4. I spent $40 and have (conservatively) played 200 hours since its release. That comes out to $.20 an hour. In reality that $.20 will probably be far lower over the life of the game even with the cost of the expansion factored in.

Good video games deliver value like few other entertainment vehicles. This is not just true of Civ but any quality video game. Fortunately, the $30 is a trivial expense for me making the decision to buy a no-brainer.

 

[Armorydave]

Try Emperor, once the AI smacks you around a bit you may not be so sympathetic.

I agree with your point but that need not prevent you from using all mods. Many very good mods only make slight adjustments to the numbers and balance things out for all players or are graphical based and only change how units show up or add new information to the screens that make gameplay easier to manage.

I will get the expansion as soon as I can, but still very much appreciate the effort that went into all of the 'unofficial' mods that are out there.

If adding something to the game makes it more fun for you, isn't that really what it's all about in the first place.

I have tried Emperor a couple times and did not enjoy the game. The handicap was too steep and I was playing from behind the entire game before getting beat into space. It definitely smacked me around and specifically made the early and mid game less fun and that is my favorite part of Civ.

Regarding mods, I started looking into them casually before Warlords was announced. I decided to wait until I have played Warlords before looking into mods again. I fully recognize that mods can enhance a game but my only significant beef with Civ 4 is AI competence. Since there is no Mod to eliminate the numerous idiotic AI behaviors (I pinned down a 20+ ship destroyer fleet in a city my last game with a single battleship and destroyer) I am not particularly motivated to add more game features that the AI won't use properly. I agree that mods which help streamline the information process are desirable.

 

[King Flevance]

Actually, a friend of mine was telling me about a theatre by his house where no kids are let in. It is adults only, they serve beer and have these like lounge chairs and stuff. Figures that I dont remember if he told me the name or not now that I need it. If I talk to him today I will ask him about it and post it up here.

BTW Death to cell phones!! People that dont know where their vibrate button is and that don't have the curtosy to be discrete because they wsh to look like an important member of society get on my nerves. Does anyone ever look at the guy in the theatre that has their cell ring and think it is an 'important business call'? I don't, I always imagine his mother on the other end saying "can you pick me up some milk and run it over here to me?" If your ages 16-25 we all know your not a well known doctor, or a lawyer, or a CEO. Cut the charade.

I am not a big movie buff myself. However, the rest of my family is. I am like the black sheep that knows like hardly any actors by name/site. To me actors and actresses are "that guy in so-and-so movie" and thats even if I recognize them so my DvD purchases are ALWAYS over their replay value for me. I own DvDs I have only watched 2 times. But my DvD collection doesnt compare to my computer game selection.

So, for me the price/hour on Civ 4 beats alot of my DvDs. However, I am not even sure if Civ 4 will ever reach Diablo 2, Civ 3, Civ 2, Arcanum, X-Com, or Tropico status. It will be doing good to hit Roller Coaster Tycoon, Age of Wonders 2, Age of Empires 2, or Cultures status. This being what Firaxis does in the future. I used to hate Sierra Games and had a small boycott on them for years. But everyone always gets another chance at redemption as time goes by and they redeemed themselves after a while, without my support. I am not saying Firaxis should go out of business tomorrow, but if they stay in business it will not be due to myself. They have lost this customer for now. If I ever come back is basd on their actions in the future. Do they want me back?

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Actually, a friend of mine was telling me about a theatre by his house where no kids are let in. It is adults only, they serve beer and have these like lounge chairs and stuff. Figures that I dont remember if he told me the name or not now that I need it. If I talk to him today I will ask him about it and post it up here.

Mission Theater and Pub in Portland, OR.

Every other row is removed and replaced by a tall table. The serve sandwiches and a few hundred kinds of on-tap beer from around the world. The atmosphere is lively and it's O.K. to shout at the screen when the characters do something stupid or a hot girl appears.

They usually play older movies like James Bond flicks, Dr. Strangelove, Dead Again, horror movies, etc. so the prices are reasonable.

Highly recommended!


Sorry for the off-topic but this is even more fun per dollar than civ!

 

[King Flevance]

I think that was it, not positive though. He lives in TX though so it may have a couple other locations. But that really sounds like it. I am not sure if the movies played are the same way though. I thought he said something about newer movies being played. Not sure though. I plan on moving to TX within the next year or two though so when we get on that topic things like this show up. I must admit though the main benefits to moving to TX for me are the fine senoritas.

 

[DaviddesJ]

That makes it less than worthless. That makes it something that one shouldn't buy on principle, because one shouldn't encourage a company that refuses to even fix the products it sells.

These are two completely different points. The product can have value (which it does), and yet you can still refuse to buy it (which you will). The latter doesn't negate the former.

It goes too far for you to say that other people shouldn't buy it. You can only speak for yourself and your own priorities, not for me and what my priorities should be.

 

[Jazzster]

[On the off topic topic.]

Really, you can't compare movies with Civ 4. If you watch a movie by a directors like Kurosawa or Scorsese, Coppola or Forman, you get value way beyond a couple of hours of entertainment. It might be priceless, experiences that might change your life, or character. -- However much I enjoy Civ, it's nothing but amusement. Nothing wrong with amusement, but great video games aren't comparable to great movies, and the "value" shouldn't be compared.

Just my unnessary two cents.

 

[naterator]

Actually, a friend of mine was telling me about a theatre by his house where no kids are let in. It is adults only,

just be discreet, remember pee wee herman?
i'm no movie buff, in fact, i'm also usually the one who's never seen that movie, no matter what movie we're talking about, but i've got a couple of dvd's that i've had since the 90's that i've seen maybe even 10 times, not to mention the time or 2 i've scrolled through the features. video games still whallop them completely in value. dollar per hour they are my personal best entertainment value. it depends on what you're in to.
flevance, the senoritas are a huge benefit, but i'd personally rank the lack of income tax as the main benefit of living in texas. watch out if you plan on boasting of KC's barbecueing prowess, as i hear they take it pretty seriously down there too.

 

[King Flevance]

It is still recreation. A movie is just a movie and as Hollywood is today I would hardly base any of my life off of an idea inside of one. No doubt there are good conflicts, tragedys and drama out there in these stories but you can always associate it to someone being completely moronic or unrealistic as the start of such stories. This is why I am not a big movie fan myself. The realism is dreadfully inaccurate at best.

Even the solution to many problems inside of a movie story is alot of times unavailable or foolish if it were real life. But the camera glamorizes and glorifis this decision as not only a completely wise move, but one that must be done as well. I cannot think of a single movie that holds any valuable information about life that could help someone out. Maybe some movie like American History X would come close but only to show people the idea of a "what if". I am sure if I went back and watchd that movie I could nitpick it though and I am fond of that movie and think everyone should have to watch it at least once before the age of 20. There is actually no deep knowledge to life in it though.

 

[King Flevance]

just be discreet, remember pee wee herman?
i'm no movie buff, in fact, i'm also usually the one who's never seen that movie, no matter what movie we're talking about.

Same here. I didn't see Scarface until 2 years ago. I still haven't seen the Godfather, nor do I care to. To this day someone brings up the Godfather movies and I say I haven't seen them and the reaction I get is like I just said I recently moved to Earth from the planet Remulak. "We come from France."

flevance, the senoritas are a huge benefit, but i'd personally rank the lack of income tax as the main benefit of living in texas. watch out if you plan on boasting of KC's barbecueing prowess, as i hear they take it pretty seriously down there too.

Lack of income tax will probably be a issue I will hold. As for barbeque, I think I barbeque better than most of the restaurants here. SO I will only be talking up my own skills, and taking any tips I like if they will show me. Most of the barbeque establishments here no longer cook the sauce into the meat anymore and have you put it on afterwords. I can't express how against this I am. Do they not understand the meaning of a barbeque? Barbeque being cooked into the meat allows to have the flavor seep inside for flavor rather than just have a coating of barbeque. I would like to move in next door to some barbeque lovers as my friend isn't that big on it. Like many others, he will eat it but doesn't care about the recipe.

It'll be cool though I have known this dude since we were in high school. He is waiting for the double pack for Civ ala my suggestion to him. I am the last one of my friends to move out of the midwest almost. And everyone went in seperate diections.

 

[Commander Bello]

Regarding the calculations here:
How much is a big bottle of mineral water? $2? Let us just assume, it were.
How long will it keep you alive? Given, that you live under temperate conditions, say 5 days?

So, if you would play 10 games of Civ4 (huge maps, 18 nations, marathon speed) it is highly probable that you have a better return on $/hour than for the bottle of water.

Do you stop drinking, though? Ok, has been a pleasure to meet you....

 

[Armorydave]

Water is a necessity. We are discussing relative value of *entertainment* spending. That analogy is irrelevant to this conversation.

 

[Wodan]

Water is a necessity. We are discussing relative value of *entertainment* spending. That analogy is irrelevant to this conversation.

Actually, it's even worse than that. The analogy was a bottle of highly-marketed, so-called "spring water".

Wodan

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Regarding the calculations here:
How much is a big bottle of mineral water? $2? Let us just assume, it were.
How long will it keep you alive? Given, that you live under temperate conditions, say 5 days?

So, if you would play 10 games of Civ4 (huge maps, 18 nations, marathon speed) it is highly probable that you have a better return on $/hour than for the bottle of water.

Do you stop drinking, though? Ok, has been a pleasure to meet you....

Not quite the same thing. I believe we were discussing discretionary spending for entertainment and what a great value civ4 is compared to other items in this category.

If I need to I can drink tap water for basically free, but that's not nearly as entertaining as a good game of civ is.

I will not stop drinking anytime soon, and it has been a pleasure to meet you too.

 

[troytheface]

technically speaking they are all false analogies-i think ol Commander was being humorous there and the choice of the analogy was used on purpose to amplify this.

I say we should all support Firaxis especially if they release flawed products- because maybe they had a hard time getting a job with someone else and they need cash to feed their kids, or better yet to blow at strip clubs and stuff.

I suggest it is more productive to support flawed things than it is to cry about a few bucks like an uptight tightwad. That way when something happens that actually matters- like a drunk surgeon removing a healthy testicle or something u will have saved ur energy and intellect to tackle the issue....

(reading most of the complaints i am of the suspicion that there is a bigger issue going on psychologically with the whiner- i mean think about it- if u really really felt put down or ripped off wouldn't u go to say the Better Business Bureau or some local Consumer group rather than a fan forum?...
(but i think we all have a desire to complain about some thing or another and i can appreciate that )

 

[Zombie69]

It has absolutely nothing to do with the value. Whether you paid $2 or $2,000 for the game makes no difference. The fact is that you paid for a product, were sold a disfunctional product, and the company that sold it to you refuses to fix it.

 

[DaviddesJ]

It has absolutely nothing to do with the value.

The definition of "worthless" is "without value". So the question of whether the expansion is "worthless" has everything to do with value.