I do have a question though at what rate does the warmonger debuff decay? It's said earlier in the thread that the debuff for declaring war is 2.5 +/- 50% for a civs warmonger hate. If it really does decay 1 point every 5 turns that's only ~20 turns for an anti-warmongerer. That doesn't seem to bad if you're the aggressor and get a free city out of it.
No, the numbers don't work like that. The Warmonger rating decays with 5 points each turn. The 2.5 reported in this thread is actually 250 points, so the penalty you get just from doing the DoW will be completely gone in 50 turns. Basically, multiply the numbers reported in beginning of this thread by 100 to have a number that can be compared with the 5 per turn decay. For instance, when adwcta reports on first post of this thread report a value of 21 for taking out a 1-city civ on standard map (8 civs + 16 cs), this would actually be 2100 points.
However, I'm not sure which factors modify this number after the basic calculation - I know that it can range +/-50 % from this value based on AI personality (whether they tolerate or hate warmongers), but if there are other modifiers to it, I can't understand from the code (see
here for a larger part of the code). I hope there is, because if the value of >2000 is applied without any regulation, that will mean critical warmonger hate for 400 turns!
I haven't done for for BNW, but it's all in an XML file under AI diplo defines (IIRC)
Indeed, they are. Just to have some numbers to compare:
Warmonger minor (>50 warmonger score): +15 (positive numbers = bad)
Warmonger major (>100 warmonger score): +40
Warmonger severe (>150 warmonger score): +70
Warmonger critical (>200 warmonger score): +100
Shared Embassy: -1
Asked them to stop spy: +10
Asked them to stop settling: +20
Return worker: -20
Resurrected them: -200
Liberated their cities (1/2/3+ cities): -30 / -50 / -60
Stealing their land with a general: +30
Adopting their religion: -5
They adopted your religion: -3
Broke military promise: +40 (and +15 to all other civs)
Broke expansion/buy land promise: +20 (+15 if you refuse to promise not to continue)
Broke no convert promise: +8 (+4 if refuse to promise)
Broke no dig promise: +30 (+20 if refuse to promise)
Killed a CS they protected: +40
Declaration of Friendship: -35
Declaration of Friendship with one of their friends/enemies: -15 / +15 (these don't seem to stack, btw!)
They denounced me: +35
I denounced them: +35
Their friend denounced me: +20 (these stack!)
My friend denounced me: +35
I DoW'd their friend: +40
Their friend DoW'd me (I think - or my friend DoW'd me possibly): +60
Share intrigue: -10
This is not a complete list, but it's fairly representative of what sort of numbers we are talking about. What I find interesting from this (appart from the odd fact that sharing their religion apparantly caries next to no weight?) is that there are MANY major bad modifiers connected to denouncing and war that will rapidly give you an extremely bad relationship with them, whereas there are very FEW major good modifiers, apart from the rare ones where you liberate their cities and bring them back to life. What this shows is that even if you have a huge stack of positive modifiers with them, the Warmonger label alone will easily be enough to neglect all of those and bring you way down in bad relationship with them for that alone.
Is that balanced? Not in my oppinion, but then again, there are still things we don't know. The threshold for critical warmonger level (>200) is so laughable low that we MUST assume that this number does not compare directly to the values of >2000 we get just from capturing
one city or city state early in the game.
