Was wondering, about combat

[Master_Aricitic]

I've read a couple of times that there is something wrong with the combat system. For example there's a thread about people who lost the >99.9% combat odds. I've also read about people trying to mod it, to fix it or enhance it...
But I have to ask... Has anyone ever really hacked into it? I've looked, I've searched, I've read many things but I still haven't gotten an answer, so I had to ask. I'm really curious about the combat system because of all the work people are putting into it, but really the question that spurred me into creating this thread is more along the lines of a trainer that makes the computer calculate your odds as always 100% or higher, or even a 'mod' that does so.
Seriously, I'm curious about other things, but that's what I've spent that last two hours looking for, so I simply have to ask if anyone knows any more about this than I do. I'm just tired of reloading a save to "try again" and lose again, a way to always win (if even only for ~50% combat odds) would be nice...

 

[Bushface]

There are some oddities about the combat system in the way it allocates situational bonuses, but it is, and I emphasise IS, consistent. It is easy to fight a thousand battles in a game, hundreds of thousands of players, each having played several or many times, totalling many millions of battles, so overall it would be most surprising if some few of these battles were not lost even at >99.9% odds.
As for always winning your battles, where would the fun be ?
And if you want to get a different result on reloading, then either ensure that you have checked "new random seed on reload" or, before fighting the relevant battle, fight a different one, which will use up some of the pseudo-random sequence numbers.

P.S. To be absolutely sure of a Conquest win, after the first turn go into World Builder. This will show you where all your opponents are. Put a couple of Modern Armour units, promoted to Combat 5, by every foreign city. Exit WB, declare war on everybody, and wipe them out in turn 2. Very dull, but very successful.

 

[digitCruncher]

a way to always win ... for ~50% combat odds would be nice...

Umm... what!? That is one of the most absurd comments I have ever heard!!

Let me put that exact same statement, replacing "~50% combat odds" with a term which means the EXACT SAME THING ("a situation where I would win around half the time")

a way to always win ... for situations where I would win about half the time would be nice...

So... no. By definition, even losing a 99.9% combat odd situation SHOULD happen, about once in a thousand combats (IE. Approximately once every 10 games or so)

And before you ask, the combat odd calculator IS accurate, it has been empirically tested by many different people, and no valid counter-example has been given (except for the first strike bug, which was infamous for giving 100.5% combat odds... and losing!!)

 

[GodBen]

It does seem imbalanced against you, but that's because of human psychology. Apparently humans are five times as likely to complain about a bad experience than they are to compliment a good experience. I got very annoyed yesterday when I lost four battles in a row at 67%, which caused me to not capture that city until the next turn.

However, earlier in the game I won a victory with a 0.3% chance without my unit receiving any damage.

Remember, the most memorable battles throughout history are the ones where one side overcame incredible odds to become the victor. For example, the battle of Agincourt.

 

[CCRunner]

Remember, the most memorable battles throughout history are the ones where one side overcame incredible odds to become the victor. For example, the battle of Agincourt.

Seriously though, if you want to win every battle, you're playing the wrong game. Even if you have 100% odds in this game, you can still lose.

To increase your chance of winning, attack with suicide siege units prior to battle.

1,000 Posts!!!!

And I joined this forum to make only 1 (which I still haven't gotten around to)

 

[Master_Aricitic]

Well, the problem is, and all of your posts hold good points, however, I'm playing on an extensive mod with plenty of python script and on an extra large map, so reloading takes about ten times as long as it would normally. Basically, I was hoping that rather than taking anywhere between half an hour to three hours (if I'm really trying too hard) to win a battle it could only take one try and about five minutes... It's more a time factor than anything else...
Besides that, I'm surprised that no one has created a real cheat. I mean, for example, if you want to add new units to the game there's the in game editor. New cities, same thing, change the terrain, add terrain features, buildings, etc. all has an in game editor... There are some trainers for giving yourself gold, allowing units unlimited moves, and one turn building times... but nothing retaining to combat odds... I was just surprised no one had tried to tackle that.
The real reason I was looking for this is because if you fight with the odds against you you gain more experience than when the odds are in your favor, which allows for quicker upgrades. I KNOW it's cheating, but, hell, it's against the computer and I've already beaten the game (unmodded of course).
Seriously though, I'm just looking for a way to shorten the time to do things, since the mod I like to play makes loading and end-of-turn wait take so long...

 

[JujuLautre]

If you want highly-promoted units, why don't you just open the world-builder and create them yourself ?

 

[Master_Aricitic]

True... But I'm trying to avoid going into the world builder as much as possible. I want to actually play the game I just don't want to wait the five to ten minutes it takes for each load... Basically the way I'm looking at it, I'm going to reload until I win (or get bored) anyway, why not try and speed up the process... I know it's cheating but some people call reloading at all cheating, or having a random seed on cheating, etc. I don't want to modify the game, I just don't want to reload every time I lose when I know I've won with that probability before... (usually about 23% is my limit... below that I'd be insanely lucky-or reload 200 times...)
I KNOW it's cheating, but if I open the world builder and just give myself something I'll probably end up giving myself something else, pretty soon I have everything and I may as well not play at all...
People like to cheat, so long as they're not playing against another person that's their business, their choice... I ONLY want to cheat at this one thing-since I'm going to do it anyway...

Before I forget again, thank you all for your replies.

 

[JujuLautre]

Well, I believe it's more a problem of you and your conscience than anything else. I mean, in the end, other than in your head, there's no difference at all between reloading 10 times to get the battle result you want and going into WB to put it directly. The random factor? Well, just roll some dices if you want it.

I do not think anyone here can help you, really.

 

[LateGameWarMong]

You reload until you win at 23%?

Id rather get rid of probabilities completely.

Say a 4.0 strength unit does 4 hp damage/ attack turn, a 40 strength unit does 40 damage/attack turn.
A modern armor vs spearman thus always survices with 88% hp, every time, assuming no first strikes fortification/defense bonus, or promotions

15% retreat means it always retreats at 15 hp, 30% means it retreats at 30 hp left, etc.

4.0 vs 4.0 either both die, or its the only time you "flip a coin", or both survive with 1 hp.

Not sure how I'd do air combat...
Perhaps instead of intercept %, you have a "number of strikes", and evasion chance reduces the # suffered by 50% - allowing it to get to the target if defended by only 1 jet fighter, but it will be "out of comission" for many turns after that...

Or intercept chance is an offense modifier- like a defense bonus for aircraft..... when the aircraft is on an intercept mission

 

[Joshua368]

Dude, either cheat or don't. No half-and-half crap.

Basically saying if you're going to be reloading all your battles you're already cheating so there's no reason not to just use world builder if it's more convenient. It's single player, the AI won't care.

 

[digitCruncher]

C-evo (A civilisation clone) has deterministic combat (IE. there is no chance in combat)

It is an interesting thing in theory... but it is MUCH more fun to have a small amount of chance of your best-laid plans collapsing, and you having to fall back, and re-build defences...

There are a few things I would like from C-evo into Civilisation (build-your-own units , and multiple future techs are 2), but deterministic combat is NOT one of them.

 

[DanF5771]

I can understand people who complain about losing too many of their >80% battles - there is a way to decrease randomness in combat which lets the stronger units win more often and makes lucky punches of weaker units more unlikely by changing COMBAT_DAMAGE in GlobalDefines.xml from 20 to something like 5 and thus increasing the number of rounds in 1 combat.
But reloading until you win at 23% odds because it could have happened "naturally" to gain more XP is somehow beyond me .
Just go into WB once and give yourself 20 Great Generals and attach them all to your units, so you can promote them with Drill IV, Guerrilla3+Tactics and Leadership which will let them win/survive battles at bad odds and gain even more XP.