Washington Monarch Cookbook Mark II (IC Concurrent)

[i_imperator]

My votes:
1st place: Siran, for great city placement, and good tech path.
2nd Place: Birbor, for good exploration and exapnsion. Tech pace is good aslo.
3rd place: Hrun: for getting the gold up quickly and a good tech pace, and decent city placements.

@ mintegar, thanks for the feedback, i'm not worried about giggles too much, if he founds a religion i could just convert to it and get him to hate someone else, i might take him out with cats and swords/axes(if we have iron) or rifles later on.
You have also forgotten that i have fogbusted my landmass, so that single barb archer is going to be my only barb problem.
@ Enkage: Thanks for the vote, but you put a extra 'e' in my name.
@Alodr : I got yelled at by lymond in the last MC for teching archery. You don't need it for this difficulty. Fogbusting with warriors should be enough, to keep the barbs at bay.

 

[Siran]

I had a look at all the games now, some of what I say may have been said earlier.

bufo

Spoiler :

I already said something about the worked tiles so I won't repeat that.

I don't like the position of Boston. I would have put the city further down to grab the sugar and leave place for another city north of it. Now it's a little bit crowded for another city. But that's just my opinion.

You have neither writing nor mysticism. Writing would have been nice to get the research going after we kill the economy with more cities, but here it gives you another problem: Border pops. Boston is not a really good city until it can work those special resources. For that you need a border pop. So it'll take at least 25 turns to get the city to get going.
The same to a lesser extend for New York, you can work the horses, but you don't get the gold.

Hrun

Spoiler :

Nice cottages in Washington, fast settler and worker production and a lot of commerce. Why do you only have 2 workers? That's not enough for 3 (almost 4 cities).

New York is in a nice position, but has few improvments and I don't understand the tiles worked. I would either put that second tile on the oasis (growth in 4 turns) so you can put the next tile on the mine or on the mine (growth in 10 turns, library in 20 turns).

In Boston doesn't have a special food resource so I would build farms for growth, not cottages for the time being.

mintegar

Spoiler :

Nice cottages in Washington, fast settler and worker production and a lot of commerce.

New York is in a nice spot, already has a border pop. But the special resources are not improved so far. Why don't you mine the hills?

I don't like the position of Boston. If you put it furter down you could have build another one in between Washington and Boston. You throw away some nice floodplains which can't be worked now.

Aldor

Spoiler :

4 cities, good positioning. Good tech pace. Writing is in. Building workers in a city with size 1 one is normally a nono for me. Not a single building besides the palace, a monument in the capital would have let you grow it to size 7 and work more tiles.

Trystero

Spoiler :

3 cities, interessting choice for your capital. Not enough workers. 2 worker for 3 cities is not enough and it shows. Second mine is missing in Washington, with size 3 it's too small and you have a lot of whip anger.
Nice scouting, good city placement of the rest of the cities, but no writing so far. No units in Washingon and New York.

enKage

Spoiler :

Only 2 cities and both pretty small. Only 2 workers and 2 warriors. Expansion is really not enough here. You could have used the two workers better. You have roads everywhere, which you don't need. The wheel is not very good as the first tech you research. Take one where you can improve some special resource, like AH or in this case mining for the hills. Pigs are a strong special resource, if you can work them.

Stephen

Spoiler :

3 cities, one good blocker, although it's costing you. Only two workers online which shows if you look at the capital. No mysticism that slows your growth of the new cities. In the south you have creative Gilgamesh putting pressure on your borders. I guess I would build libraries in both instead of workers. You need that border pop in New York to get the city going. All the good resources are in the second ring and if you want to use Boston as a blocker, it has to cover the whole land there.

Bibor

Spoiler :

Great exploration! Only two workers which are building roads?! You're just teching sailing which will connect all your cities. What do you need those roads for? For connecting your cities you could have done with less. Good blocking of Gilgamesh, but I don't really like the position of your first two cities.

And about myself:

Spoiler :

Still like the position of my cities, although I'm not sure if I should have build cottages in Washington instead of farms. Could have worked those when I was building workers and/or settlers for better research.
Exploration is not good but I don't think I could have done a lot about that after my first one got eaten without delaying the building of settlers and workers. I thought that more important.
I thought about teching sailing, but I do have my cities almost connected by roads and so far I haven't found coastal cities of other players, so I wouldn't get any trade routes out of them. Maybe IW would have been a better choice than mathematics.

Still have to think a little bit about whom I want to give which points.

 

[Trystero]

There were really interesting choices to make on this map, and picking out three saves wasn't that easy. Also, there was lots of great analysis to read through. My votes on this round :

1st: Bibor. The city placement is good. I like your choice for the coastal capital better than mine since it is more central. Fantastic exploration which was rewarded with lots of early contacts . I think this save would be really interesting to play out just to see how well we could exploit early diplomacy to our advantage. The tech path was good with exception of the detour to Hunting & Archery. With Sailing this would be a great save. I was really conflicted whether to make this or Siran's save my first choice.

2nd: Siran. After reading the analysis here, I will agree that putting the capital 1W is very strong. This isn't something that would have occured to me given the options on the coast, so I am already learning a lot. (I found Abegweit's analysis of the opening extremely helpful.) Not being able to utilize the flood plains properly was one of the things I most disliked about my capital. The tech path was also good, but I would switch from Math to Sailing. A very strong start.

3rd: Hrun. This seemed like a really solid save. The position of the cities is good, and it is hard to fault settling in place too much. Washington is developed nicely with the cottages up and running, and the research is good.

Comments on my own save: It would have been much better if I had skipped IW and researched Sailing and Writing. Having the horses hooked up should be sufficient to deal with the remaining barbs, and between Gilgamesh and my settling, most of the area would be spawnbusted soon anyway. I also should have used one of the WB for exploration as others noted. I had more than enough food without hooking up all the seafood right away. Thanks for all the helpful comments!

 

[mintegar]

@ mintegar, thanks for the feedback, i'm not worried about giggles too much, if he founds a religion i could just convert to it and get him to hate someone else, i might take him out with cats and swords/axes(if we have iron) or rifles later on.

I was curious if that holds true and decided to play from your save till 250BC (i'll just describe how relation with Gilg. developed, so no real spoiler below)

Spoiler :

Ok you are right. Since Gilg. hat founded Hinduism, he was busy sending over misionaries. I immediately converted, and relationship was up to pleased real soon.
It's really quite ridiculous, he has like 4* the power rating and stays docile just because of religion. Anyway, it seems like i didn't factor in this "religion factor" correctly while evaluating your game situation.
I'd just be interested how reliable this "early blocking city" method really is. By that i mean, is there a possibility that the AI goes into war-mode really soonish?

@Siran

New York is in a nice spot, already has a border pop. But the special resources are not improved so far. Why don't you mine the hills?

Border expanded just last turn. Yes i know irrigation should allready have been startet, worker will get to it the next turn. Didn't have time for the mines yet, probably should have built an additional worker sooner.

I don't like the position of Boston. If you put it furter down you could have build another one in between Washington and Boston. You throw away some nice floodplains which can't be worked now.

I put it there because it can work horses + cow, making it a good city soon. Later city which will work a few cottages can fit between Washington+Boston even with my Placement. But i admit that my placement is not the best, I didn't think too long about city positions because i was trying to play that game quickly.

 

[lymond]

I have the votes tallied up so far and let's just say things are very interesting. Still waiting on votes from Siran and Makaz. Anyone know where Makaz is? I'll give them a little more time and the we will get round 2 started.

Really great discussion and analysis by everyone. I'm very impressed by it all and hope everyone is learning by virtue of the process.

 

[Bibor]

I have the votes tallied up so far and let's just say things are very interesting. Still waiting on votes from Siran and Makaz. Anyone no where Makaz is? I'll give them a little more time and the we will get round 2 started.

Really great discussion and analysis by everyone. I'm very impressed by it all and hope everyone is learning by virtue of the process.

Yeah, too bad I already preloaded CIV5 onto my PC; i hope Civ5 will get its share of cookbooks

 

[Siran]

I have the votes tallied up so far and let's just say things are very interesting. Still waiting on votes from Siran and Makaz. Anyone no where Makaz is? I'll give them a little more time and the we will get round 2 started.

Really great discussion and analysis by everyone. I'm very impressed by it all and hope everyone is learning by virtue of the process.

Should have voted earlier. Would have been a lot easier to stay honest.

1. Hrun - really high commerce, needs workers but otherwise nice, 4th settler in place
2. mintegar - almost as much commerce as Hrun, one more worker, 4th settler not yet in place
3. Bibor - I'm still not happy with the placing of the first two cities and needs workers

Guess I just broke the tie...

 

[lymond]

Round Two Commences​

Congratulations to Bibor for winning the vote in the first round!

Bibor and Warrior Princess Siran were in a heated battle for first place. Bibor just nudged Siran out by 1 point. Siran did not vote, but that would have been inconsequential since she cannot vote for herself. Probably the closest result I've seen in a cookbook. Hrun had a solid hold on 3rd place. Here is the results:

Below you will find the save that will be used for Round 2:

Bibor

Round 2 lasts from 1500 BC - 400 AD (100 turns - I think) and will tentatively end at Midnight EST on Sunday, September 19th, with voting to occur the subsequent couple of days.
(Note: Alt-M allows you to set reminders for X number of turns)

This round is also open to players that have not previously submitted games and have not played/shadowed past the date of 1500BC. Players that feel their overall game is too strong for the MC may submit shadow games, and this is actually welcome as it can prove educational for less experienced players.

 

[lymond]

Ha, Siran. I posted this just as you posted your vote. It would not have matter, but it would have been interesting if Makaz voted - the one person who did not vote this round.

 

[Siran]

I don't think I will get to vote the next round. I'm off to Djerba for week of nice sun and beach on friday and I won't take a civ capable laptop with me, so I won't be able to look at any saves. I'll try to play my game before I leave but if you want any comments from me, I'll need a lot of nice screenshots and statistics.

If you leave the next round open till Saturday I can try to play it, otherwise you it goes on without me.

Some thoughts on the next round:

I'm a little bit nervous about an attack by Gilgamesh. He does have Copper in his BFC, so he will be able to start pushing out Vultures pretty soon. So far we only have archers as counter unit. I think we should go for IW after Sailing, to find out if we have at least some Iron. We have to settle one city at the horses fast and another one at the iron, if we have it and it isn't in any BFC. And we need a lot of workers. I'm afraid that will leave us not much production for units or barracks to keep the power rating up...

 

[lymond]

Siran, the round is open until Sunday so I hope you can get your's in. Enjoy Tunisia!

 

[yanner39]

@siran

Spoiler :

Looked at your save and the cities are very nicely placed. Curious as to why to chose to farm the floodplains instead of cottaging them? Was it because you wanted for food to grow faster and produce settlers/workers quicker? Will you eventually convert these to cottages to take advantage of the buro cap?

I usually farm one FP and cottage the rest.

Good job.

 

[Makaz]

Ha, Siran. I posted this just as you posted your vote. It would not have matter, but it would have been interesting if Makaz voted - the one person who did not vote this round.

Sorry for that As being just back from hols, I had so much catching up to do at work that I couldn't find a moment to play or even come to this forum I hope to be able to fully participate next round (both in voting and playing), especially since 1 vote could really change the outcome!

 

[Makaz]

About the questions re -pulling a rush from round 1. I did it with an initial stack of 8 chariots and while calling peace as often as possible to surprise him and ambush its troops out of the city - chariots eat vultures and archers outside walls. - doesn't help with diplomacy but prevents him from stacking defenses and buildings pikemen.

Hardest city was capital with 40% culture and on top of a hill if I remember correctly. All cities were defended by 1 archer and 1 vulture.

But as pointed earlier, the main default of my rush was that I overfarmed my capital as I was thinking of a GPF for the long term, while it should have been fully cottaged to support my war effort.

 

[Siran]

@siran

Spoiler :

Looked at your save and the cities are very nicely placed. Curious as to why to chose to farm the floodplains instead of cottaging them? Was it because you wanted for food to grow faster and produce settlers/workers quicker? Will you eventually convert these to cottages to take advantage of the buro cap?

I usually farm one FP and cottage the rest.

Good job.

Thanks.

No need for spoiler. Everybody who's playing has seen the game.

Yes, I farmed the floodplains to grow faster. In the end, I think I should have cottaged them and maybe micromanaged them so I would work cottages while building settlers and workers and work mines when I build anything else. I would have converted them to cottages eventually, but after Bibor has won this round, I'm not sure if I will continue my game at all. Have to figure out a way to continue his first.

 

[bufo802]

Should probably have got another save later today or tomorrow, trying to take more time over this one and hopefully should be better than the last.

Spoiler :

Is it normal however for montezuma to randomly declare war on you with +7 standing or so and no - points at all? We're even the same faith and thought that the ai usually had a reason (like asking for tech and being rejected) at the very least. This happened about 60bc or so, and he sent a load of galleys with various units (mainly jaguars) in.

 

[lymond]

bufo - There's no logic with Monty. He will attack you whenever he sees fit regardless of relations. You either attack him first or get him to a state in which you can bribe him into war with someone else. They call him a psycho for a reason.

 

[bufo802]

Ok, didn't know that. At least he was clever enough to attack a city on a hill with 2 archers....

 

[lymond]

Shaka and Nappy are about on par with Monty, although I find Nappy to be the worst of the bunch since he actually has economic traits - you just don't see Nappy a lot.

 

[DNK]

I know I'm a bit late for the first round, but I'd like some feedback if anyone is interested.

First thoughts:
1. I got really unlucky versus barbs, losing 3 well-defended warriors to barbs, and one to a double-panther attack. I also had an archer pop up on my northern border the same turn the cap fogbusted him, and that's the #1 issue I'm having this turn since I still only have warriors and he's starting to close in.

2. I didn't send a worker with my #3 (gold) city settler, and that's hurt my teching. It was a dumb mistake.

3. I don't have sailing, although I've now found a couple foreign cities to trade with and have three coastal cities myself.

Questions:
1. Teching: I went AH>Mining>Wheel>Pot>Myst>BW>Writing>Iron (17T to go). I feel like I could have avoided Pottery so early since I am not really working cottages right now, and only just now am starting on a granary (in #2). Otherwise, I feel like I got techs right about when I needed them, although I am still lost on the last tech decision. IW seems increasingly important, and I'm not sure what better path there would be.

2. Slavery: Have not yet adopted slavery since I don't feel like I have any cities that could really use it right now: the capital has a lot of really productive tiles, as does #2, and #3&4 are only 1 pop. I've spent a lot of time chopping instead since there was plenty of forest to go around, and that seems to have covered me well. Not sure it's a civic I'll be able to put to much use right now, since only #4 looks to need it due to a lack of hammers (although I can chop out a monument and granary and have #2 supply the fishing boats).

3. Plans: I will try to grab one more city down by the rice, but then I'm not sure. There's a barb city since I couldn't put too much hammering into fogbusters, and then I'm up against my soon to be enemy's borders. Because of the gold mistake, I'm not teching so well, and am generally behind. I think swordsmen and cats are going to be the answer to that, but it will take a while.

4. City placement: not terribly enthused with #3, gold. Feel like 1SE might have been better and given it some more productive ability, but I wanted it to cottage over and give me a commerce boost while my other two northern cities pumped out units (with good whipping on the cap?). I feel like given the info at the time, settling in place was best, and I'm happy with #2 and #4. This will be a hybrid economy when I get around to it.

5. Builds: cap has been putting out warriors, workers, and settlers; #2 is work boats and now infrastructure (monument>granary>library?); the other two are monuments then granaries, with emphasis on hammers and not growth until the monuments are out, although with #3/gold that might be wrong?.