We don't like them that much either!

PinkyGen

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I'm sore by now that a lot of you have seen the poll Gallup took of Muslim public opinion on the West, and how they don't like us that much. Well, feel good, because we don't think they are that hot either. ;)

Original at http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/04/u.s.muslim.poll/index.html

PRINCETON, New Jersey (CNN) -- About one quarter of Americans surveyed have a favorable view of Muslim nations and more than two-thirds believe those countries would be better off if they adopted Western values, according to a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll.

The poll of 863 adults comes in the wake of a similar survey of nine Muslim nations that found widespread disapproval of the United States.

The two polls are virtual mirrors in their results: Most Americans surveyed said they believe Muslims don't respect Western values, and residents of such countries said the United States does not respect Islamic culture.

In this latest poll, conducted March 1-3, just under one-third of Americans surveyed said they believe all or most people in Muslim countries admire Osama bin Laden, and one-third said they believe Islam promotes more violence than other religions worldwide.

Seventy-one percent of those surveyed said they believe people in Muslim countries think the United States is at war with the Muslim world; only 34 percent of these Americans said they believe that is the case.

Of those surveyed, 24 percent had favorable opinions of Muslim nations; 41 percent had negative opinions.

When asked what they believe people in Muslim countries think of the United States, 82 percent of the Americans surveyed thought Muslim's opinions would be unfavorable, compared with 9 percent who thought their opinions would be favorable.

When asked why they thought those opinions were unfavorable, 78 percent blamed misinformation while 11 percent blamed U.S. actions.

The survey found that 68 percent believe Muslim countries would be better off if they adopted Western values.

The earlier survey of Muslim nations found most residents believed the United States was "arrogant" and was biased against Islamic culture.

If the survey is any indication, most Americans are not particularly worried about what the Muslim world thinks of them.

Twenty-four percent said Muslims' opinions did not matter much to them, and 23 percent said they had no interest at all in Muslims' opinions.

Almost a quarter of those surveyed said the opinions of people in Muslim countries mattered to them a great deal, and 29 percent said those opinions were moderately important.

Forty-one percent of those surveyed said they knew a moderate amount about Muslim countries, while 56 percent said they knew little or nothing at all.

The study found that 77 percent of respondents believed the U.S. military action in Afghanistan was morally justified; only 12 percent found it unjustified.

Gallup asked the same question in seven Muslim countries for its poll released last week and got very different responses. In none of those countries did a majority say that the war in Afghanistan was justified.

The survey had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
 
Originally posted by PinkyGen
When asked why they thought those opinions were unfavorable, 78 percent blamed misinformation while 11 percent blamed U.S. actions.

:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by PinkyGen

The survey found that 68 percent believe Muslim countries would be better off if they adopted Western values.

The earlier survey of Muslim nations found most residents believed the United States was "arrogant" and was biased against Islamic culture.

And this survey proves that the Muslims were right.

The most telling figure for me was that MORE THAN HALF of the poll respondents admitted that they knew little to nothing about Islamic countries. And yet they still had some very definite opinions.

It's times like these when I start to agree with the America-bashers in the rest of the world.
 
The poll of 863 adults comes in the wake of a similar survey of nine Muslim nations that found widespread disapproval of the United States.

The survey had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.
Hmm, I may doubt that, may I? ;)

Besides that, the poll doesn't surprise me much. And Jimcat's right, if it's true than the muslims weren't that wrong...
 
Hold on a second! Sheesh you people jump to conclusions...
Read the survey carefully... it does NOT mirror the Muslim one at ALL. The article is written in a way to make it appear like Americans are completely intolerant and condemning of Muslims. In the survey, only about 25% of the people are complete morons, which shouldn't be news to anyone.

As far as adopting Western values... of course we favor our own system! The fact that only 68% said yes was kind of low. If the poll would have asked "Should we force the rest of the world in our belief system" it would not have stood at 68%.
And reread the question. It doesn't ask if WE would be better off, it asks if THEY would be better off. Its useless advice. But the key part of that is that MORE than 68% of the respondants want things to be better for THEM! Did we see anything like that in the Muslim polls?

I think this article draws way too many sweeping conclusions from small #'s. For example "If the survey is any indication, most Americans are not particularly worried about what the Muslim world thinks of them", yet, according to the next paragraph, 53% think Muslims opinions matter a moderate amount or a great deal! The article is spinned so much it is dizzying :crazyeyes
 
Was I missing something when viewing the link, or was the raw polling data not available? I would like to be able to look at all the info before making my mind up based on what this reported says.
 
Nah Greadius, the muslim survey had the conclusion that muslims think that Americans are "arrogant" and "biased towards muslim culture". And the American survey says 56% admit to know "little or nothing at all" about muslim countries, but still 68% think they would be better of with "western values".
Doesn't that somehow support the muslim's view?
 
Originally posted by Hitro
Nah Greadius, the muslim survey had the conclusion that muslims think that Americans are "arrogant" and "biased towards muslim culture". And the American survey says 56% admit to know "little or nothing at all" about muslim countries, but still 68% think they would be better of with "western values".
Doesn't that somehow support the muslim's view?
Well, define Western values first. Do you think it would HURT Muslim nations if they began to respect the rule of law, value freedom, liberty, the persuit of happiness? What exactly about Western values WOULD be harmful? Its in innocus question that is spun to look like something more than it is. I believe everyone would benefit from adopting Western values; I don't care if they do or not, and I'm not about to lift a finger to force them.
Plus, 56% knowing little OR nothing at all. I'd like to see how many claim to know little, add that to the # that know a moderate amount, and those that claim to know a great deal. Perhaps then when we had a big, fat 80% majority claiming to have knowledge of Muslim countries would you respect the figure more? Its spinning statistics and misreading a question.


Originally posted by knowltok2
Was I missing something when viewing the link, or was the raw polling data not available? I would like to be able to look at all the info before making my mind up based on what this reported says.
I broke that down from the article. I'd like the raw data too.

Percentage of Americans who...
Believe all or most people in Muslim countries admire Osama bin Laden: 32%
Believe Islam promotes more violence than other religions worldwide: 33%
Believe people in Muslim countries think the USA is at war with the Muslim world: 71%
Have favorable opinions of Muslim nations: 24%
Have negative opinions of Muslim nations: 41%
Think Muslim nations will have unfavorable opinions: 82%
Think Muslim nations will have favorable opinions: 9%
Believe misinformation is cause of unfavorable opinion: 78%
Believe US actions cause unfavorable opinion: 11%
Believe Muslims would be better off if they adopted Western values: 68%
Have no interest in Muslim opinions: 24%
Think Muslim opinions did not matter much to them: 24%
Think Muslim opinions were moderately important: 29%
Think Muslim opinions matter a great deal: 24%
Know a moderate amount about Muslim nations: 41%
Know little OR nothing at all: 56%
Think Military action in Afghanistan is morally justified: 77%
Think Military action in Afghanistan is morally unjustified: 11%
 
I'm not a muslim. I live in a country considered "western". I value freedom. That is not the question. The question is, how can someone say another one would be better off with western values if he doesn't even know about the values of that other one? I wouldn't say my values are the ultimately perfect values, that would be ARROGANT. I wouldn't say someone I don't know would be better off when adopting them, that would be a BIASED VIEW.
A 80% majority claiming to know about it could be questioned, but people admitting not to know about it but judging anyway are OBVIOUSLY arrogant. That has nothing to do with spinning statistics.

That leads me to another thing that I mentioned in my first post. I seriously doubt that a poll with 863 participants can be representative for a country with 270+ million people. It is theoretically possible but I'd like to see the actual criteria they chose the people after. THAT would be the raw data you'd have to look at.
 
I would say that not a single answer here is really surprising.

Even that only 11% that believe US policy has anything to do with many Muslims' unfavorable opinion of us.

I assume the other 89% couldn't answer because they had their heads buried in the sand.
 
Originally posted by VoodooAce
I would say that not a single answer here is really surprising.

Even that only 11% that believe US policy has anything to do with many Muslims' unfavorable opinion of us.

I assume the other 89% couldn't answer because they had their heads buried in the sand.

The question does not appear to be written that way Voodoo. It is not set up to say that the 89% think that US actions have nothing to do with the opinions, and it is misleading to indicate that that is the case. Those people may think that disinformation is more of a cause. Which of the two should they pick?

Gee, where was the choice, "Combination of both?"

Once again, give us the raw data and we can go from there. Survey methods would be nice, but I doubt we could even hope for those.

The survey may mean what the article indicates, and some Americans may be as arrogant as many of you claim, but I would like more information and the opportunity to make my own decision about what it means. Having to extrapolate the polling questions and responses as Greadius has done ( :goodjob: ) should not be necessary. It also does not present the full picture. The article is slanted towards the writers conclusions and only presents the data that supports those conclusions. This does not make those conclusions wrong, but raises my suspicions about what is not being reported (ie, the rest of the survey).

Call me a suspicious right wing extremist looking for left wing media bias under every rock if you want to(You can be the first), I prefer to think of myself as someone who looks for bias in anything I read, and who wants to hold journalism to a higher standard. :)
 
Originally posted by knowltok2
Call me a suspicious right wing extremist looking for left wing media bias under every rock if you want to(You can be the first), I prefer to think of myself as someone who looks for bias in anything I read, and who wants to hold journalism to a higher standard.
Although you're right to look for bias in anything you read I think that hasn't anything to do with the often stated "left-wing media" bias. Fact is, that there AREN'T objective statistics, everything can be (and is) biased to some extend. The way you ask, the people you ask, how many you ask and most importantly what you ask determines the outcome maybe even more than the actual opinions.
The funny part is that especially right-wingers tend to use very generalized statistics ("60% of the UN staff is corrupt", "Communism killed soandso many people", etc.) to "prove" their point...
 
Originally posted by Hitro

The funny part is that especially right-wingers tend to use very generalized statistics ("60% of the UN staff is corrupt", "Communism killed soandso many people", etc.) to "prove" their point...

Yeah, well 70% of left wingers use generalized statistics to attack the right wingers!!! ;) :lol: :crazyeyes

I don't hold for this whole left wing, right wing thing personally. I'm more of a leg man myself ;)
 
Hehe, me too, but still it seems that the use of that type of statistics in debates is far more common amoung the right-wing than the "other side". I don't count myself to either and I don't use that kind of statistics... ;)
 
These 'polls' are faulty gauge of inter-civilisation feelings.

You are talking about far too many cultures and vast amounts
of different people to make any generalisation about muslim
feeling towards the western world.

Most of these media-androids who run these crap polls are just
trying to stir up angst anyhow, you have to ask the real people.
What we don't need in the modern age is polarisation of
East and West, we have went through all that already...

I think most people in the muslim world are more interested in
getting on with their lives, like us. A CNN broadcast of angry
protesters does not constitute the entire muslim world...keep
that in mind.
 
Curt's post puts me in mind of the satire I read in the Humor forum about the Angry Moderates not rioting. Or something like that.

A thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people will offer an opinion on something regardless of their knowledge of the subject, or the strength of their convictions.

I think Football Hooliganism is horrible, but I don't know much about it, and I'm not in support of armed intervention by the US.

Perhaps people shouldn't offer such opinions, but they do, and that is the way it is. Curt is right that most people just want to get on with their.
 
863 adults?
Wow, they sure scanned the demographics thouroghly, didn't they?
Of those 863, 800 probably think Iran is an "Arab" nation.
75% or 60% or whatever percent of some race/religion/nation disagrees with some other race/religion/nation. For example, I consider myself to be almost vehemently against nuclear weapons. However, you don't see me slaughtering silomen with an M-16 or sabatoging Trident submarines in port, do you? As long as people keep there anger to to themselves, it hardly bothers me.
 
Originally posted by VoodooAce
I assume the other 89% couldn't answer because they had their heads buried in the sand.
Or maybe they don't think our Yemen policy justifies hatred. Or the mere existence of Israel justifies murdering Americans. What that question was asking, in my opinion, is "Do U.S. policies justify their hatred". I'd answer "no" as well, and I'm sure I understand U.S. policy towards Arab nations.

Originally posted by Hitro
The question is, how can someone say another one would be better off with western values if he doesn't even know about the values of that other one? I wouldn't say my values are the ultimately perfect values, that would be ARROGANT. I wouldn't say someone I don't know would be better off when adopting them, that would be a BIASED VIEW.
You didn't realize Americans are arrogant before this. Sometimes, arrogance is justified :D
Like I said before, Americans want them to adopt our values willingly because we see how wonderfully they work for us; plus if they adopted our values they'd probably stop trying to kill us. Big win for Americans all around; what American who appreciates our values COULD say no?
However, the way you're reading it its like saying "Those backward rag-heads better start worshipping the right God or we'll make 'em"... which is absolutely NOT the case. Personally I think the whole WORLD would be better off if we stopped the silly religious thing, but I'm not going to lift a finger to stop them. Its advice; everybody has it, don't take it personally.

Originally posted by Hitro
I seriously doubt that a poll with 863 participants can be representative for a country with 270+ million people.
Polling is down to an art... around 1000 people is the right sample size. Usually they gain them by random phone calls at random times.
The biggest weakness of random polls is they don't capture the people who don't answer their phones, have unlisted numbers, don't have a phone, or are never home. However, that is countered by the fact that those people don't hold unique viewpoints that are unrepresented otherwise.
 
Did you know: 47.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

;)

I don't think that most news agencies are left-wing or right-wing. What I do think they do is present things in a fashion that will attract the most attention. This poll was done specifically to counter the previous one done in Muslim countries, and I think it has been twisted in a way to spark the most interest in the Western public. You don't have to be left-wing or right-wing, or even left-handed or right-handed, to enjoy handling all that extra money that comes in when more people pay attention to your news agency.
 
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