We Must Have Ottoman Turks

[Supertavshan]

Given that Civ is all about imperial pretensions it seems pretty dumb that he Iriquois get included but one of the major empires of the last few thousand years doesn't.

For those of you whose history is a little weak the Ottomans were at the gates of Vienna in 1483. They already ran the Balkans, the remnants of the Eastern (Byzantine) Roman empire including Byzantium / Istanbul , modern day Turkey a hwole lot of the middle East and dominated the mediterannean / Noth Africa. Istanbul in the 16th Century was the capital of the world and made most of Europe look like a flea infested mud pit.

If they had broken through in the late 15th century - all of Europe and subsequently N America - might well be Muslim!!

They also have their own distinctive military unit - Janissaries (literally yeni ceri - new troops) and various cool Sultans / military leaders. Obviously Mosque would replace cathedral!

In fact there is probably a very cool Ottoman expansionist scenario waiting to be built

 

[WarlordMatt]

Can you please tell me what Janissaries are? What would they replace? What would their A/D/M probably be?

The Babylonians are dead, but Turkey is still here. It would be good to have a modern-day Middle East civ.

 

[allhailIndia]

Originally posted by WarlordMatt
Can you please tell me what Janissaries are? What would they replace? What would their A/D/M probably be?

The Babylonians are dead, but Turkey is still here. It would be good to have a modern-day Middle East civ.

Especially a secular, progressive one with few fundamentalists and lots of educated open minded ones. However, Turkey does not exactly classify as a Mid-East civ, but Hebrews might??

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by WarlordMatt
Can you please tell me what Janissaries are? What would they replace? What would their A/D/M probably be?

The Babylonians are dead, but Turkey is still here. It would be good to have a modern-day Middle East civ.

Jannissaries = mousketman.

Ottman empire was destroy in ww1 by european faction to control oil ressource.

 

[Graeme the mad]

Hurray - I agree with you on inclusion of the TURKS - not the ottomans, we have the english not the stuarts. However I think they should get an industrial special unit because there are hardly any of them (I suggest a marine) and turkey today has the best army of any Islamic country
However I do not want the Islamic empire (or Arabs though there were arabs before Islam) excluded if the turks (not just ottoman) are included. I mean these two empires were at war. Itas like saying germany and france are the same because they have the same religion

 

[allhailIndia]

THe lack of Industrial UU's can be solved by giving the Americans Minutemen instead of F-15 and British, the Dreadnought( A battleship on steroids ). Anyway there are already 2 Industrial Age UU's, the Cossack and the Panzer, but only 1 modern age UU which will be removed if My plan is implemented,

Let's face it, most civs in the game are ancient and medieval civs, with only the Indians and Chinese remaining somewhat similar to how they started

 

[Graeme the mad]

Hey incredible allhail india - My mod pack has the british with the dreadnought and I have given the US a SEAL (replaces marine) however I still think people should be given the option of more industrial uu and I think turkey could be one

 

[Zouave]

Janissaries


(jn´sâr´´z) (KEY) [Turk.,=recruits], elite corps in the service of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey). It was composed of war captives and Christian youths pressed into service; all the recruits were converted to Islam and trained under the strictest discipline. It was originally organized by Sultan Murad I. The Janissaries gained great power in the Ottoman Empire and made and unmade sultans. By 1600, Muslims had begun to enter the corps, largely through bribery, and in the 17th cent. membership in the corps became largely hereditary, while the drafting of Christians gradually ceased. In 1826, Sultan Mahmud II rid himself of the unruly (and by now inefficient) Janissaries by having them massacred in their barracks by his loyal Spahis.


Spahis


or Sipahis (spä´h) (KEY) , Ottoman cavalry. The Spahis were organized in the 14th cent. on a feudal basis. The officers held fiefs (timars) granted to them by the sultan and commanded the personal loyalty of the peasants who worked the land. The Spahis were entitled to all income from the fief in return for military service to the sultan. Until the mid-16th cent. they provided the bulk of the Ottoman army. Committed to the tradition of light cavalry, they were slow to adopt firearms, whose development made the cavalry less important. They remained politically important until Mahmud II revoked their fiefs in 1828, two years after he crushed the Janissaries with modern artillery in his effort to build a modern army. In the French army certain Algerian and Senegalese cavalry units were also called Spahis. The term is sometimes spelled Sepahis.

 

[FrosTi]

Stop talking about the turks or i'll be tempted to start a EU2 game

 

[raven]

Originally posted by Graeme the mad
Hurray - I agree with you on inclusion of the TURKS - not the ottomans, we have the english not the stuarts. However I think they should get an industrial special unit because there are hardly any of them (I suggest a marine) and turkey today has the best army of any Islamic country
However I do not want the Islamic empire (or Arabs though there were arabs before Islam) excluded if the turks (not just ottoman) are included. I mean these two empires were at war. Itas like saying germany and france are the same because they have the same religion

If we include Turks, instead of Ottomans, it becomes very hard to choose the ruler, UU, etc. Because there are lots of important Turkish countries which have completely different starting locations and even cultures!

-Turks had come out in Middle Asia and there was Hun Empire (predecessors of European Huns) between 3. century BC and 155 AD.

-Later there was Göktürk Empire in the same region.

-You surely know European Huns which ruled by Attila. (They were one of the tribes that immigrate to Europe after Asian Hun Empire collapsed.)

-Selçuk (Seljuk) Empire was important too. They had occupied Anatolia.

-Ottoman Empire, which came out from Selçuk Empire's ashes, looks like the most reasonable one for this game. (Although it's hard to call most Ottoman sultans as Turk! They always had married with foreign women.) (For UU, Akinci (knight 4.3.3) or Sipahi (cavalry 7.3.3) suits better to Ottoman expansionism. Janissaries are between swordsman and musketman and more like a defensive unit.)

-Finally Turkey, but it would be nonsense (formed at 1920), since we sometimes discuss about Americans' existence in the game.

BTW, I hope you mean the population in Turkey, by calling Turkey as an islamic country, 'cause there isn't an official religion in Turkey.

 

[allhailIndia]

I think Ottoman turks are a better pick among the whole lot given by raven. Also their cavalry were armed with sabres as against the muskets(?) as shown in Civ3.

 

[erix]

Originally posted by raven


If we include Turks, instead of Ottomans, it becomes very hard to choose the ruler, UU, etc.

That is right. Choosing Ottomans would make things easier to decide.

This or that way I want to see Turks or Ottomans included in the upcoming expansion pack. Than I could call the civilization I play as "my civ".

 

[Graeme the mad]

Why does it become hard to choose their ruler? - other civs dont have the same problem. The ruler can be an ottoman guy and the special unit some replacement marine (or whatever). No other civ is just called by one dynasty

 

[erix]

Originally posted by Graeme the mad
Why does it become hard to choose their ruler? - other civs dont have the same problem. The ruler can be an ottoman guy and the special unit some replacement marine (or whatever). No other civ is just called by one dynasty

Let me try to explain; As Turks, we have a very important leader "Atatürk". He is the founder of "The Republic of Turkey". But when you say "Turk" it does not only mean a citizen of Turkey. There are more than 5 Turk countries on the world. (And there were 10s of Turkish countries at earlier ages which some of them lived at the same time in different places.) So we should go back to early ages , the first leaders of the Turks. Than comes the "city names problem". Will you choose city names of "The Republic of Turkey" or the names of very old Turk cities.
Personally if there will be a "Turk" civ in the expansion pack; I would like to see "Atatürk" as the leader and our republic's city names in the game.

 

[Graeme the mad]

Fine you can have Ataurk or whatever - but the problem with turkey isnt limited to that country. You cna have turks, modern turkey represents them but practically every civ is in the same situation -

China (do I even need to explain)
Persia - lots of different empires caling themselves persian and based around persia from the Achaenimid to Iran
Japan - Made up of warring states for most of its exsistence
Rome - divided in two for a large time
Germany - before germany there were more than 50 states considered german, often constantly at war

All these countries got rulers

 

[erix]

Originally posted by Graeme the mad
Fine you can have Atatürk or whatever

Thanks for giving permision.