weakest triats

[The Navy Seal]

Actually, it's a royal pain to attack a Protective Civ's cities in pretty much any age.

Ecspecial whenthat person is Toku.

 

[kristopherb]

Actually, it's a royal pain to attack a Protective Civ's cities in pretty much any age. In the premodern ages, you get Archers, Crossows, or Longbows sitting on walls or castles. A real hassle. Attacking China or Arabia is not the most fun thing to do in the game.

It would probably be more desireable to players if their style was more defensive. The problem is that you don't really win more easily by having large walls. This is why I think Japan is the best Protective Civ. It can support its elite Swordsmen and Catas with cheap but tough Archers, then follow it up with holy hell when the gunpowder units arrive.

your telling me has any one attacked churchill? hence the reason why i play as him.

 

[BARBEERIAN]

Expansive is surely the worst.+3 to health is just weak, creative at least is good to grab land and when you conquer a city, or you don't want that some of your cities flips to enemy.

Are you aware that expansive let's you build workers 50% faster now? It sucked b4 that change, but since then it's become one of the most powerful traits. In any online game I play 3/4 of the people play expansive leaders. More workers earlier is always going to lead to more hammers, food, and commerce empire wide. Your cities will develop MUCH faster since it's so easy to get 2 workers per city that you should almost never have to work a 'naked' tile.

For me I guess the weakest trait would be Imperialistic. It's not overly bad with cheap settlers and more Generals, but it could use a slight buff to balance it out with the other traits. Everything else is all equally useful for the most part. It just depends what situation you're in as to what traits will be best.

 

[Antilogic]

This thread was made before the changes. I think we have to remake the thread after BtS comes out (because they are still adjusting stuff at Firaxis).

 

[Azander]

!

I'm one of the very few voting for aggresive, I guess. I'm like, the biggest peacemonger, so I never put this trait to proper use.

 

[Antilogic]

Aggressive is strong not necessarily for the Combat I promotion, but for what comes afterwards. If I can give my axes Shock out the barracks and you can only give them Combat I, you are in for a beating. Not to mention Aggressive leaders can get Formation promotions quicker (at 5 XP, 4 XP if Boudica), being they require two Combat promotions first. Even a Charismatic leader has to wait until 8 XP (again, unless you are Boudica) for the Formation promotion.

It is by no means weak if you put it to proper use. Which can be said of any of the promotions up there. I'm of the opinion that they are remarkably well balanced at the moment. If I had to pick one, I might say Imperialistic...barely. But just barely.

I would like to take my vote back on Creative. After those cheap libraries came out, I have revised my opinion of it upwards.

 

[largedarryl]

Of course hearing some high level players talk about the game, I would think that financial would have got more votes.

I'm not saying its the worst trait, but I just thought more people would vote for it.

 

[mudphud]

Of course hearing some high level players talk about the game, I would think that financial would have got more votes.

I'm not saying its the worst trait, but I just thought more people would vote for it.

I don't think many people think financial is the worst - more just overhyped.

 

[Da_V_Man]

I don't think many people think financial is the worst - more just overhyped.

Finnancial is good for those who like to use a lot of cottages. It makes you much better for teching.

 

[largedarryl]

Finnancial is good for those who like to use a lot of cottages. It makes you much better for teching.

I understand that is the reason why financial is good, but when I mentioned higher level players (playing above monarch) they cannot utilize the benefits of a tech that takes until liberalism to be really effective. Also at those higher levels, you wouldn't be able to outtech anybody, even if financial added 2 or 3 coins per tile.

I guess you're right, it is just over-hyped.

 

[hgthechinese]

it really largely depend on the difficulty level. if you are a noob and get a billion health from difficulty level, of course u wont need expansive; if you are play at emporer and see armies attacking you while you are still in the stone age, protective is rather necessary.

 

[Antilogic]

That's also one of the reasons why Organized was so underappreciated until the half-priced factories. Civics upkeep really doesn't strike you as a high-ticket item when you are playing below Prince, but after you get towards the top, it is a godsend. Not to mention those cheap courthouses...I was amazed when they gave Organized double production on factories. I really thought the trait was good before then, and now it is amazing.

If you take a look at higher difficulty level players (at least from what I've seen, because I've only played as high as Monarch), they will tend to have a higher opinion of the Organized trait than Warlord/Noble level players. Expansive was another trait, that, before the worker bonus, lower difficulty level players would say was weak (because the health bonus wasn't noticeable with all the free health you get on low difficulty), but higher difficulty level players liked because of the health bonus. To contrast, Charismatic seems to be loved no matter what the difficulty level is.

 

[jason77024]

Are you aware that expansive let's you build workers 50% faster now? It sucked b4 that change, but since then it's become one of the most powerful traits.

Just to qualify this a bit, you get +50% on the -hammers- used to create a worker. You don't get a bonus on the extra food also put towards workers. So it works out to somewhat less than 50%, especially if you have the extra fish/no hills capital.

And I'd have to agree with the poster on the pvs page who likes creative. One big help is in the early game - no anguishing over whether to settle a mediocre location to get the copper/horse immediately, or move over one space to get a great location that doesn't grab the resource until the first border pop. Eight turns until the pop, no problem, the worker is building the road in the meantime. Chopping trees for an axeman is so much better than doing it for a monument.

 

[Antilogic]

You must be a fellow Epic player, because on the normal speed its only 5 turns until the border pop. Second what you said, though.

Also, the Expansive bonus helps later, after you already produced your first worker or two. You can take a break from building stuff like Markets and Grocers to produce another worker in 4 turns or so, after your cities already have a few mines or production-enhancing resources hooked up.

 

[bonafide11]

Remember, Protective also boosts your gunpowder units. Gunpowder units with first strikes give you an advantage/QUOTE]

But as of Warlords, Drill I is only a tease. What good is Drill I if you can't upgrade it? Outside of cities, a gunpowder unit with combat I (Aggressive) will generally destroy the Drill I gunpowder unit. I know Protective receives other bonuses, but I never understood the Drill I gunpowder bonus. I suppose it allows you to reach Pinch with your first promotion, but the Drill promotions need to be available as well. Of course, BTS will soon fix this whole problem

 

[mudphud]

Overall the traits are well balanced considering how different they all are. As I mentioned before I think defensive needs another or a different cheap building even though walls may be a little more appealing in BtS since you need them for the great wall they still seem weak unless of course the AI has actually learned how to fight a war.

 

[IAM]

I've played all the traits but didn't necessarily play the benefits of each trait to it's max. I still like Industrious best and expansive least though I have retried expansive again. Recently though because of this thread I played a spiritual leader again. Didn't really care much for it before.

Anyway In the late game I was warmongering, capturing cities with holy shrines etc. I switched religions several times to spy out my opponents using thier own holy cities. And switched civics whenever there was a lul while I moved troops from one end of my empire to the other. Also used slavery very effectively on many size 10+ cities that were freshly captured. All without anarchy. Lots -o- fun.

"When I come back no more Mr. Nice Guy." Adolf Hitler

 

[Antilogic]

But as of Warlords, Drill I is only a tease. What good is Drill I if you can't upgrade it? Outside of cities, a gunpowder unit with combat I (Aggressive) will generally destroy the Drill I gunpowder unit. I know Protective receives other bonuses, but I never understood the Drill I gunpowder bonus. I suppose it allows you to reach Pinch with your first promotion, but the Drill promotions need to be available as well. Of course, BTS will soon fix this whole problem

It's a small boost, but its there nonetheless. I consider the free City Garrison I on my gunpowder units far more important. Even on the offense, if you just capture a city, your Combat-promoted attack troops still get +20% to defend that new prize? Score!

And, in BtS, Drill will be available to gunpowder units. That is going to boost Protective. Not to mention Protective gets cheaper Castles (and cheaper walls to get there), and now Castles provide +25% espionage points. Protective is going to be a much better trait in just over a week when BtS is released.

 

[Thedrin]

And, in BtS, Drill will be available to gunpowder units. That is going to boost Protective. Not to mention Protective gets cheaper Castles (and cheaper walls to get there), and now Castles provide +25% espionage points. Protective is going to be a much better trait in just over a week when BtS is released.

You'll also need 3 walls to build the great wall.

 

[hgthechinese]

They really should make the game more civilization-based. For Ex, China should be able to build the GW w/o the 3 wall thing, whereas US can build Broadway w/o....whatever it needed. Just after a little banlancing, each Civ should have different (yet mostly fair) advantages in terms of wonder building.

W/that modification, GW is be much more likely a chinese structure, which makes the game overall more realistc. Don't you hate it when the germans nuke the Arabics whose U.N resoluted to have free religion for all?