Welsh civilization?

[TyrannusRex]

So, what do you folks think would make a good Welsh civilization? I'm only starting to learn about Wales, so I don't know too much about historic leaders, unique cultural elements, etc. So I figured I'd see what you had to say.

(The only thing I know I would want with, say, a Wales DLC, is a new achievement, unlocked by trading whales with Wales.)

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I like wales, I'm of Welsh descent, but I don't know. They mostly seem to be known for being England's pushovers.

The city name list would be extremely fun though.

 

[TyrannusRex]

Oh, the cities... I want there to be like a .5% chance that one of the cities you found is that one with the world's longest name XD

 

[Uberfrog]

I like wales, I'm of Welsh descent, but I don't know. They mostly seem to be known for being England's pushovers.

The city name list would be extremely fun though.

"Pushover" is not correct, but yeah, even the greatest Princes of Wales would usually find themselves on the losing side of battles with their larger neighbour. As a result, it's kind of hard to justify any leader abilities that aren't going to be overly similar to similar underdogs Lautaro and Robert the Bruce (i.e. defensive war bonuses against strong neighbours).

The best candidates for leader would probably be Owain Gwynedd, or his grandson Llywelyn the Great. An earlier "King of the Britons" would be cool, but many of these early rulers are obscure and the necessary details largely lost to history. I suppose the guy with the most name recognition would be Owain Glyndŵr, also in the same vein of ultimately failed rebellion as Lautaro.

Unique unit would have to be the longbowman, especially since the English don't have it.

I can't think of a good candidate for infrastructure (a Rugby Pitch instead of the stadium, perhaps!), but the civ ability would have to be a cultural one, as Wales has an ancient literary and poetic tradition from Taliesin through Geoffrey of Monmouth all the way up to Dylan Thomas. It could be based around the Eisteddfod and particularly boost Great Writers.

Oh, the cities... I want there to be like a .5% chance that one of the cities you found is that one with the world's longest name XD

While the village's actual name, Llanfairpwllgwyngyll is certainly long enough, the "full" form (which was, alas, made up as a tourist gimmick in the 19th century) is only the second longest single-word place name in the world So it wasn't even worth it...

 

[awesome]

...King Arthur

 

[TyrannusRex]

...King Arthur

Technically "Artorius" to history, but sadly, even more sketchy than Gilgamesh.

 

[dunkleosteus]

My grandfather is Welsh, but I've never been.

What about
-Forts are unlocked with the Castles tech and always exert zone of control.
-Sacred Grove: replaces the Holy Site. Must be built on a forest tile. Minor adjacency bonus from mountains, full adjacency bonus from forests. +1 great writer points after drama and poetry.
-Unit?

I also feel like sheep should be incorporated in some way (not in that way).

 

[MaryKB]

Would the Welsh be different from the Celts? I am not an expert on British history, but I do know that Cardiff is usually a Celtic city when that civilization has been included in the game.

 

[dunkleosteus]

Would the Welsh be different from the Celts? I am not an expert on British history, but I do know that Cardiff is usually a Celtic city when that civilization has been included in the game.

The Celts were a very geographically diverse people. Welsh is part of one of the Celtic branches, but to have a single Celtic civilization would be akin to having a civ called "East Asia".

 

[Uberfrog]

Having learned a bit more, I've reassessed to say that my favourite leader pick would be the one and only King of Wales - Gruffydd ap Llywelyn (not to be confused with Llywelyn ap Gruffudd... yep names can be confusing). A successful leader in his own right, not just in opposition to the English (in fact he nicked some border regions off Edward the Confessor). Plus he's genuinely King, not just a Prince.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Would the Welsh be different from the Celts? I am not an expert on British history, but I do know that Cardiff is usually a Celtic city when that civilization has been included in the game.

Well, it looks like the Celtic blob won't be returning since Edinburgh, which is definitely a Scottish city now, was the capital of them last game. It's perfectly feasible to have the Welsh now or Ireland, Gaul etc.

 

[dunkleosteus]

Would the Welsh be different from the Celts? I am not an expert on British history, but I do know that Cardiff is usually a Celtic city when that civilization has been included in the game.

The "Celts" in Civ 5 was kind of a point of contention for some in previous Civ games. Saying the "Celts" are a single people is sort of like saying the Slavs are a single people. In the last millennium BC (a century or so before Boudica lived), Celtic tribes inhabited Ireland and most of Great Britain. They stretched from Northern Spain to the Netherlands, south through France to Northern Italy and as far east as the Black Sea and Anatolia. Boudica wasn't even really Welsh. Her people lived in East Anglia and she had only a passing relationship with Welsh tribes.

 

[Sinaherib]

I believe another "Celtic" civ (besides Scotland) can really appear in Civ VI, but speaking of its possible leader - I think it will be a person with a much more "Celtic" apprerance (language, outfit, background etc), since "Medieval Celts" are already represented by Scotland. So, Wales or not, but anyway I doubt it will have a Medieval king as a leader. Wales can appear but it is more likely to be something like Denmark (Vikings) from Civ 5, while Scotland can be compared to Sweden in this case.

 

[Uberfrog]

I believe another "Celtic" civ (besides Scotland) can really appear in Civ VI, but speaking of its possible leader - I think it will be a person with a much more "Celtic" apprerance (language, outfit, background etc), since "Medieval Celts" are already represented by Scotland. So, Wales or not, but anyway I doubt it will have a Medieval king as a leader. Wales can appear but it is more likely to be something like Denmark (Vikings) from Civ 5, while Scotland can be compared to Sweden in this case.

I mean Wales only really existence as an independent identity in the Middle Ages, so short of making Boudicca the leader or some other such absurdity, they're really not a viable option (but who honestly thought we'd see a third civ from the same island? ). I'd much rather see Gaul as a more ancient Celtic civ.

Boudica wasn't even really Welsh. Her people lived in East Anglia and she had only a passing relationship with Welsh tribes.

While this is of course true, and she would be an awful pick for Welsh leader, the concept of Welshness did not even nearly exist in Boudicca's day. There were tribes like the Silures and the Ordovices that inhabited what would become Wales, but the Welsh (or Cymry) identity gradually grew more generally out of the remaining Celtic-speaking people who identified as the Britons (Brythoniaid), who could, if they were feeling romantic, trace a link back to the Iceni and Boudicca. In fact both terms referred more generally to all Brythonic-speaking people until they were pushed out of England entirely into Wales and Cornwall.

 

[dunkleosteus]

I mean Wales only really existence as an independent identity in the Middle Ages, so short of making Boudicca the leader or some other such absurdity, they're really not a viable option (but who honestly thought we'd see a third civ from the same island? ). I'd much rather see Gaul as a more ancient Celtic civ.



While this is of course true, and she would be an awful pick for Welsh leader, the concept of Welshness did not even nearly exist in Boudicca's day. There were tribes like the Silures and the Ordovices that inhabited what would become Wales, but the Welsh (or Cymry) identity gradually grew more generally out of the remaining Celtic-speaking people who identified as the Britons (Brythoniaid), who could, if they were feeling romantic, trace a link back to the Iceni and Boudicca. In fact both terms referred more generally to all Brythonic-speaking people until they were pushed out of England entirely into Wales and Cornwall.

It would be like making Berlin a city for an ancient tribe of Saxons.

 

[Gavin Pritchard]

I am Welsh, educated thoroughly in Welsh history and it would have to be Owain Glyndŵr to be our Leader, whom battled against the English rule over Wales in the battle for Welsh independence (Which we are currently still politically fighting for today) as Owain refused the Pardon from the English, so Wales were technically never conquered by the English truly.

Our most powerful trait would be Culture, utilising poetry the Eisteddfod and more!

Whilst in the Bronze age we were the largest exporter of Bronze to nations such as Portugal and Spain.

And modern culture we are major electrical and water exporters on a Global scale. Being the 5th largest exporter of Electricity in the World, mainly to England whom do not pay us!

 

[AmazonQueen]

"Pushover" is not correct, but yeah, even the greatest Princes of Wales would usually find themselves on the losing side of battles with their larger neighbour. As a result, it's kind of hard to justify any leader abilities that aren't going to be overly similar to similar underdogs Lautaro and Robert the Bruce (i.e. defensive war bonuses against strong neighbours).

The best candidates for leader would probably be Owain Gwynedd, or his grandson Llywelyn the Great. An earlier "King of the Britons" would be cool, but many of these early rulers are obscure and the necessary details largely lost to history. I suppose the guy with the most name recognition would be Owain Glyndŵr, also in the same vein of ultimately failed rebellion as Lautaro.

Unique unit would have to be the longbowman, especially since the English don't have it.

I can't think of a good candidate for infrastructure (a Rugby Pitch instead of the stadium, perhaps!), but the civ ability would have to be a cultural one, as Wales has an ancient literary and poetic tradition from Taliesin through Geoffrey of Monmouth all the way up to Dylan Thomas. It could be based around the Eisteddfod and particularly boost Great Writers.




While the village's actual name, Llanfairpwllgwyngyll is certainly long enough, the "full" form (which was, alas, made up as a tourist gimmick in the 19th century) is only the second longest single-word place name in the world So it wasn't even worth it...

Another possible leader would be Llywelyn Ap Gruffudd aka LLywelyn the Last, grandson of Llywelyn the Great, who united the Cymri and was recognised as Prince of Wales by the English, but was later conquered by Edward I.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Random notes on Wales, the Civ:
(Freely admit my only connection to Wales was having to learn some lines in Welsh for a play many decades ago - but since we were in West Berlin at the time, got coached by a native Welsh speaker from the Inniskilling Fusiliers so, at least briefly, got the accent right!)
1. As others have remarked, Cultural Focus is a good bet: not only poetry, but music, although Great Musicians might be hard to name, the acapella musical tradition is very strong - "bands of hairy men terrorizing the countryside with their close-harmony singing" - to quote Blackadder. Perhaps, simply, some extra Bonus from any Great Musician or Great Writer they get, or perhaps every Welsh City automatically has a slot for a Great Work of Writing or Music, to represent the 'wandering minstrel/bard' tradition. That alone could give them a tremendous boost for early Culture/Tourism
2. Obvious Mountain or Hill Terrain affinity, but more specifically some extra bonus to their Trade Routes for any Bonus or Strategic Resource: historically, they exported Tin, Coal, Iron, all the way back to the Ancient Era. That should be worth something.
3. The Longbow is about the only Welsh-specific military unit I can think of, but it's potentially a good one: Crossbow Replacement but available earlier, particularly nasty if combined with 'home' territory that includes a lot of hills or forests. Agincourt spelled with all consonants . . .
4. I remember fondly placing enough cities to get the long Welsh one in the Civ V Celtic Blob, but the real in-joke would be to include Dylan Thomas' village from the poem Under Milkwood: Lllareggub. (Spell it backwards and you'll get the joke)