West African Civilizations

[wildWolverine]

<-- passionate hothead

I'm not sure why they shouldn't be electives -- a person shouldn't be forced to study history if they are foolish enough to not want to... Unfortunately, even the most studious of historians would find difficulty in acquiring knowledge of every civilization from every continent even if his/her enire life was devoted to such a pursuit. The best alternative would be a collection of historians/history fanatics who gather to exchange ideas and discuss ideas -- like we do here

 

[sealman]

Reading back on the thread, I am not sure what I said to envoke this subdued hostility on your part. I was just thnking dvandyke for sharing his information on these civilizations.

 

[pawpaw]

Originally posted by SoCalian
I didn't know there were other people out there who wanted a west africain civ.

if you read the early polls and threads you would of seen a lot of request for mali, ect... but alas i don't think its happening

 

[wildWolverine]

@sealman: no hostility, subdued or otherwise, intended. Perhaps I overreacted to your statement -- I've seen to many American bashing statements recently (in threads of who deserves to be in the game, i.e., the one titled "Death to America"). However, absolutely no hostility was purposely directed towards you...

Also: I'm pretty sure that nothing we say here (preferences, et al) will really effect anything Firaxis does, especially on a game that is probably mostly completed.

 

[downwithgravity]

i think that mali is most deserving of being a civ in this game. I'D play them...other than that, i think a southeast asian civ would be the next obvious choice
there's always civ 4...in about 10 years *sigh*

 

[Furius]

Don't worry ther'll be another expansion. Look at 'The Sims' it's got 5/6. As we have recently met Sid's massive (but deserved) ego, I think it's safe to say Civ III will have a good 8. And if not, ther're some really good modders out there.

 

[sealman]

ww: salright. and you do not have to worry about any American Bashing from me. As the song says "I'm Proud to be an American"

Furius: I don't think that there will be that many expansions for civ. The sims has them because the only way to keep interest in the game is to add new features that, thinking back on it, should have been in there in the first place.

Does anyone know how many expansions there were in CIV 2?

 

[thestonesfan]

2 - Test of Time and Fantastic Worlds, I believe.

 

[Pembroke]

There were three:
- Conflicts In Civilization
- Fantastic Worlds
- Test of Time

And of those three the Test of Time was actually an independent game in itself, i.e. you didn't need the others to play it.

ToT contained several good features, like the events (also present in CC and FW although not as good as in ToT) and the possibility of multiple maps (=worlds) in a single game. Both combined allowed some darned good mods and scenarios...

We won't see those in conquests but maybe in the next expansion? *hint* *hint*

 

[Falcon02]

I must say, my knowledege of African History is rather limited. I have good knowledege of European, American, and a relatively good degree of understanding of Asian and Latin American history, but VERY little about African outside of European Imperialism, Modern times, and the "Classics" of Carthage and Egypt.

While, my limited knowledge in this area makes me unable to properly decide if Mali and the other civs, mentioned should be in there, I believe Ethiopia at the very least should be in there. It has the Destinction of being the only African Country (aside from Liberia which had American ties) to remain independent during the age of European Imperialism in Africa.

 

[Eastern Knight]

wow, history lessons. ... Mali should be placed into Civ3, but Ghana....

 

[thestonesfan]

Songhai would be better than Mali.

 

[Tathlum]

Songhai and Ethiopia should definitely be in.
Zulus should be renamed Bantu.
Mali, i dont realy know anything about but certainly wouldn't oppose.
How about Nubia aswell?
Or the Noks?

 

[thestonesfan]

The Songhai Empire was built on the foundation of the Mali Empire, but was greater.

The Nubian Empire was indeed great. They would make a nice civ.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Originally posted by puglover
Darn. I REALLY wanted Mali. Africa wasn't completely run by Zulus and Egyptians you know.

Don't forget (parts of) Africa (at some point or another) was also run by the Civ III civilizations of : Carthage, England, Rome, Arabs, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Holland and France, seems like quite enough

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Originally posted by Falcon02
I believe Ethiopia at the very least should be in there. It has the Destinction of being the only African Country (aside from Liberia which had American ties) to remain independent during the age of European Imperialism in Africa.

Also Ethiopia has the distinction of being invaded successfully by Italy so making all of Africa apart from Liberia European controlled.

 

[Carver]

With their rich histories, Ethiopia and/or one of the West African empires (Ghana, Mali, Songhai) should be included.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Originally posted by Tathlum
Songhai and Ethiopia should definitely be in.
Zulus should be renamed Bantu.
Mali, i dont realy know anything about but certainly wouldn't oppose.
How about Nubia aswell?
Or the Noks?

The Nubians were pretty good, but they are somewhat represented by the Egyptians, since they held the Egyptian crown on occasion. It would be like adding the Scotch, the Ukrainians, or the Manchu. All good, but already sort of represented.

 

[Tathlum]

True Nubians sometimes controlled the Egyptian crown but so did Greece, Persia and Rome. I'd still like to see more africans and the fact that these guys had regular and early contact with Egypt only makes them more attractive. Also, their archers were much sought after as Egyptian mercenaries (implying that they were quite good) and they used elephants so we have options for a decent UU.

As for Scots if you include them you should add them to the Irish and call them Gaels (gaelic civ.) as the Scots are a Branch of the Irish. The "Dark Age" Kingdom of Dal Riodha (Dal Rioda/Dal Riota) had lands in both Ireland and Scotland ( and was the root of the scottish kingdom). Then the Celts should then be renamed Gauls/Britons to represent the other major group or Celts. (Celtic civilisation comes in two Branches Gaelic and Brythonic. Scots/Irish are Gaelic, Welsh/Gauls are Brythonic). There is enough difference between these two Branches to make the distinction worthwhile.

As for Manchu, it would be nice to have a few more Chinesse civs.