WH Discussion Thread

Stormrage, the pikemen units come at the polearms tech, they should at least have some sort of polearm. A sword is not a polearm. ;)
And no, even if it was used as some sort of general defender I don't think that would fit as a chaos unit.
This applies to the gladiator too, a spear is not a polearm.

I have redeveloped an old idea, to rename griffons, and make it more general. The name would be Eyrie (meaning the nest of a bird of prey), and affect most units available at Aerial Combat. Eagle Rider, Great Eagle, Terradon, Pegasus Knight, but not Fell Bat, as I don't think that's suitable.
However, I don't know what to do with the Pegasus Knight, a Bretonnia only unit that would be worse in every way compared to the Griffon Rider, though slightly cheaper.
I'm thinking about moving it to Creature Control instead, does that sound good? And maybe give it higher defense, but let it require iron. :hmm:
 
I like the idea of Eyries :).
Since bretonnians don't have access (atleast I think they shouldn't - do they in the mod?) to griffons, I don't see any problems in pegasus knights being weaker than the griffons. And I like them pegasus knights having higher defence - afterall, they are armoured troops. And they can do recon missions.

Now, here's something completely different.
Preview of a dragon ogre :) (stats: 13-5-3, +2HP, cost 140 shields?)
 
The Bretonnians do have access to griffons, that's the "problem".

An online bretonnian army creator I found lists both griffons and pegasi available to them.

@LMR: Yup, it for dem beasts.
 
The Dragon Ogre is awesome! Its just amazing! ... WOW! :D

LOUEN LEONCOEUR rides a gryphon IIRC, so yeah, Bretts have them too.

Mrtn, I requested that guy with a shield and spear, but I could request him with a polearm if you think that would work better. A bardiche maybe?
 
Jeez! that Dragon Ogre just took it up a notch! I mean Ive got to give credit where its due. Nice work agglo. I can't wait to see that thing in action!
Next patch I take it?
 
Heh..
I've been playing as Norsca lately (huge, archipelago, 60% land, ~20 rivals = the most I've ever played with). Well, the Empire got it's heavenly empire in the early years (in about 50 or so turns), while giving me one small army of norse marauders (yay! an amphibious army :) ).

Then the orcs got their bonking sticks broken in half (literally, now their empire is only half of their original). Darn, those boar chariots are a pain in the butt.

Soon the Kislevites (currently the biggest and bestest empire in the world - BAH I say). Are going to meet their bear god. I've got 20 longboats filled with berserkers, norse dwarfs, hirdmen, warlords and horse marauders at their shores.

Some quirks I've met so far:
- warlords should enslave thralls. Instead, they enslave bondsmen (I don't mind the +1 defence though :) )
- what the heck should I do with all that money I've got? I have nothing to upgrade, and... um, I can't hurry building with it. In previous versions Norsca was monarchy - not anymore :p
 
- warlords should enslave thralls. Instead, they enslave bondsmen
Click to expand...
I added this to my debug file.
In my current Bretonnia game I have built Fighter's Guild Charter, which is a bit weird. :hmm: I propose to make that go obsolete with Knightly Virtues (the Bret starting tech).
 
mrtn said:
The Bretonnians do have access to griffons, that's the "problem".

An online bretonnian army creator I found lists both griffons and pegasi available to them.
Click to expand...
That generator is for 5th Edition. In 6th Ed, the availability of monsters was reduced drastically - it may be that Griffons were denied to Bretonnia.

Contrary to what Stormrage says, Louen Leoncoeur does not ride a griffon, but a hippogriff, which, along with the pegasus, is the traditional Bretonnian monster.
 
Norsca is gonna become what then? Despotism?

@TLC - Yup, its a hippogriff now that I look at it better, the head armor fooled me :)

:hmm: You know, somehow I`ve started to think I saw that Dragon Ogre preview before... I get these deja vu-s all time, it so annoying! :mad:

@mrtn - not chaotic? With the spiky pauldrons? Oh well... he doesn`t look like a knight of Chaos, but doesn`t he resemble some of the more armored marauders? Bestigors are so wrong for defense :(
 
What should be the rôle of the Bestigor then? Chaos already have 6, 8, 9 and 12 attackers. You might squeeze it in at 7, but what about the Bestman civ, should they get the fleshhound as defensive too?
It could be the BoC inf, at 8/5/1 +1 or something like that, but then it shouldn't be available for Hordes of Chaos (or whatever we end up calling that civ).
And even if the defensive fleshhound was my idea, I'm not completely sold on it.
 
Start unit: Bray, 3/2/1, recoloured vanilla Warrior? (It should be easy to do this)
1st defense: Ungor, 2/4/1, +1 HP
1st offense; Gor, 6/4/1, +1 HP, iron (rename the "Beastman" unit in the mod)
2nd defense; Bestigor, 6/6/1, +1 HP, iron
2nd offense; Minotaur, Probably give it the stats it has now in the mod.
1st mage; Bray-Shaman, 3(3)/3/1 +1 HP, lacks gfx, though we could always use that boring old Star Wars emperor...
2nd mage; Great Bray-Shaman, 4(6)/4/1, +1 HP, same gfx as Bray-Shaman.
1st cavalry; Tuskgor Chariot, 6/2/2, probably +2 HP, req Beasts.
2nd cavalry; Centigor, probably 8/4/2, +1 HP, maybe require Beasts, and possibly iron?
Warhound; Warhound of Chaos, dunno about the stats, maybe as Direwolves or Flesh hound? Req Beasts.
Chaos Troll, as for Chaos.
All Ogre units.
Dragon equivalent units; Dragon Ogre and Shaggoth, lacks gfx. Could use ordinary dragons, I suppose, or maybe demons, if no one makes a Dragon Ogre unit.
No war machines.
Only the simplest ships.

No leaderhead available, the leader should probably be Gorthor. I don't know how hard it would be to come up with a city list, seeing as how they're mostly nomadic?

I'd probably remove about half the beastman units from the Chaos (renamed to Hordes of Chaos?) civ, and let the remaining ones require beasts as they are. This way they can get a few beastmen allies, but they won't be dominant.
Click to expand...

what about this? :D this was the list that mrtn made on page 13, and it think it is very good. and now that aaglo is making the dragon ogre... :)

thinking about this, tho, having beastmen units available for HoC but requiring beasts, will the BoC need a special resource to build HoC units?

as for HoC units available to the BoC, i reckon marauders, marauder horsemen and possibly spearmen.
 
Well, Stormrage's problem was that the Bestigor is defensive in that list. ;)

I don't think that a "human" resource should be made for BoC, let it be assymetrical.
As to what units are available from the other civ, they should fill a good niche, this means that Marauder Horsemen is very good, but that spearmen and Marauders just are worse versions of units they already can build.
They could get Chaos Warriors though, that 8/6/1 stat compliments 6/6/1 and 9/5/1 nicely, and comes at a good tech.
Thinking more on it, the Minotaur should probably get +1 defense, i e 9/5/1.

BTW, the BoC city list still looks like this:
Darkwald
[]
:(
 
Forests of shadows? that's the only other place i could find on the warhammer site. perhaps they can partially share the chaos city list and the wood elf list, since they are sure to have conquered some of the wood elf settlements.

expanding on the idea of chaos temples, it would be better and allow for better gameplay (IMHO) to let all civs influenced by chaos to build them

so the Hordes of Chaos, Beasts of Chaos, Norsca and possibly the Chaos Dwarfs would be in competition for the favour of the chaos gods. although this will probably require a new tech to allow these guys to build them, and i don't know if that would create problems.

Khorne: produces a Bloodletter every ten turns, or barracks in every city (bloodletter here)
Slaanesh: doubles effect of temples, requires incense (either in city radius or not)
Tzeetch: doubles science output in city
Nurgle: cities grow by 2 instead of one (representing protection from disease offered by Nurgle)
 
About Beasts of Chaos:
- how about giving most of their units a movement of 2 (3 for chariots & centigors), and ignore movement cost@woodlands (like wood elves, they live in forests). That would also mean, that those units would have to be very expensive (since most of them also have +1..+2 HP).
- city list would be nice...
- I'm thinking about making that dragon ogre, shaggoth (a bit edited & grown-up dragon ogre) and bray-shaman (beast with a magic stick).
 
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