What about Prophet Mohammed?

[daufoi]

I've read some discussion about which leader should be in and which leader should be out. What about Prophet Mohammed? He united the Arab tribes and started one of the largest empires. Abu Bakr (CivIII) and Saladin (CivIV) were certainly a part of it but more on a "general" or military leader role. Mohammed wasn't just a religious leader but was involved in social and political aspects of life.

 

[Trajan13]

Unfortunately, images of the Prophet and his friends and family are not allowed under the Muslim faith. Even Abu Bakr caused a little bit of a stir, but Mohammed would be a major issue.

 

[daufoi]

As I understand it, there have been images portraying his image but these images were seen as historical images rather than images to be worshiped.

 

[sassoundwave]

As I understand it, there have been images portraying his image but these images were seen as historical images rather than images to be worshiped.

You have any source for that? Because I am pretty sure there are no images of the Prophet Mohammed around.

 

[warpstorm]

This would be just about the biggest religious faux pas Firaxis could possibly make.

 

[Janos]

Seeing as the Arabs in-game will not necessarily be muslim, this is pointless.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

As I understand it, there have been images portraying his image but these images were seen as historical images rather than images to be worshiped.

Never happened. Pictures of Abu Bakr are dubious at best; pictures of Muhammad (S)--not to mention any other prophet, such as Isa (A) (Jesus), Musa (A) (Moses), Ibrahim (A) (Abraham), Dawood (A) (King David), Suleyman (A) (King Solomon), etc., etc., etc.--is outright sacrelige.

 

[mitsho]

No, besides, Salah al-Din is as much a good choice as a leader as Mohammed. And, i think you got explained the sacrilege thing.
Well, in my opinion, the Arab civ is a bit messed up, just look at the city list (of civ3).

m

 

[frekk]

This would be just about the biggest religious faux pas Firaxis could possibly make.

Idunno ... they could pull a few others, eg Jesus, the American leader.

Or leader of Judaism.

 

[Ghafhi]

I've read some discussion about which leader should be in and which leader should be out. What about Prophet Mohammed? He united the Arab tribes and started one of the largest empires. Abu Bakr (CivIII) and Saladin (CivIV) were certainly a part of it but more on a "general" or military leader role. Mohammed wasn't just a religious leader but was involved in social and political aspects of life.

Although Muhammad did do some things I think there are better leaders and better military leaders than Muhhamad for arabs. Not to mention the majority of Islam spread when Muhhammad was dead

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yeah, I think Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius, etc. are best assumed to function solely for the founding of their respective religions, so one would never actually see them in game, even as Great Prophets (because it wouldn't Really make sense for them to show up as a Prophet 500 years after the religion was founded).

For Judaism one could attribute the founding to either Abraham (or Isaac or Jacob) or Moses so Moses could viably show up as a Great Prophet, and assume that one of the patriarchs was the founder.

Hinduism I'm pretty sure the founder is unknown so any Great prophet they have makes sense.

Daoism I don't know enough about, but I think it has an Identifiable founder.

 

[Che Guava]

Taoism/Daoism was founded by Lao Tzu. From what I know of his life, he wasa sought after public administrator, but certainly not a great leader...

 

[daufoi]

You have any source for that? Because I am pretty sure there are no images of the Prophet Mohammed around.

There is a PBS documentary that came out (Islam: Empire of Faith) that mentions this. In the dosumentary, they show some paintings, all of which cover his face with a white cloth but they say others have shown his face.

 

[daufoi]

Although Muhammad did do some things I think there are better leaders and better military leaders than Muhhamad for arabs. Not to mention the majority of Islam spread when Muhhammad was dead

Thanks for being the only one to actually address the issue but what makes the others leaders better? Yes, the Arab empire spread after Muhammed's death but for example, Saladin had nothing to do with that. Saladin drove the first Crusaders out of Jerusalem, the only military leader the was able to do so for a long time. Muhammed contributed not only as a military leader but was well skilled in social justice and political issues as well.

Others argues, then why not Jesus or Moses? But Jesus never involved himself in military, social and political forums. Maybe social in some ways, but he is strictly a religious figure, unlike Muhammed. Same can be argued about Moses. Take on the other hand Ghandi, a religious, social and political figure and therefore, you see him in the game.

 

[daufoi]

I understand the in game civ are the Arabs and not Islam, and there were Arabs before Islam. Muhammed added the piece (religious and otherwise) that unified the Arabs, spread their empire, and brought them the glory they enjoyed during the middle ages.

 

[mitsho]

Thanks for being the only one to actually address the issue but what makes the others leaders better? Yes, the Arab empire spread after Muhammed's death but for example, Saladin had nothing to do with that. Saladin drove the first Crusaders out of Jerusalem, the only military leader the was able to do so for a long time. Muhammed contributed not only as a military leader but was well skilled in social justice and political issues as well.

Salah al-Din was much more than a military leader, and he didn't only fight Christians. He was a talented diplomat and fought at different times nearly against everyone. And if you want to see his cultural inheritances, just go to Cairo, I think....
besides, Mohammad is also bad because he is not a Golden Age leader, and he certainly isn't a typical Arab leader. That's also why I don't like Osman as the leader of the Ottoman Empire, (hey, the empire is named after him, isn't that enough?).

As for other secondary possible leaders for Arabia, what about Harun al-Rashid? I know, he was probably just decent compared to other leaders, but he is THE stereotype of an Arab Kaliph, and not only because the 1001 nights

m

 

[daufoi]

I would think you would then not like a few other choices for leaderheads. Lincoln wasn't a Golden Age leader, although he got the US through the civil war (Golden Age leader for the US would be... Clinton?). When Ghandi was alive, India was plagued by poverty (don't know enough about India's history to recommend one but they have seen better days).

Furthermore, despite Saladin's accomplishments, Muhammed is vehicle that shifted the Arab empire's fate. What greater contribution could Saladin have?

As for stereotypes, I didn't know Firaxis was trying to encourage them. However, I am beginning to understand why they chose someone other than Muhammed. They're going to stay away from it if people believe there shouldn't be any images of Muhammed. Connotation is half the battle and they risk alienating at least their Muslim customers.

 

[apatheist]

He was a talented diplomat and fought at different times nearly against everyone.

Not to pick on you, but that comment is pretty funny.

 

[Urederra]

I would think you would then not like a few other choices for leaderheads. Lincoln wasn't a Golden Age leader, although he got the US through the civil war (Golden Age leader for the US would be... Clinton?).

Dunno, maybe Reagan better than Clinton? Because of the fall of the Berlin wall thing and the ending of the cold war... Or Eisenhower (sp?)

 

[SonicX]

Saladin looks to much like a younger Bin Laden without the grey stripes ...
For me, that might be enough reason to find out where they're hiding and do some pre-emptive strikes in the game ...
Controversy exists everywhere.