Frida Kahlo as curveball leader for Mexico

[untitledjuan]

My guess would be Benito Juárez if they include a Mexican leader. Maybes Santa Anna if they want to go with the most name recognition.

Given this would be Mexico's first time in the game, I think they'll be relatively safe in their leader choices for Mexico. I think their 'left field' leader choices are going to be associated with mainstays or maybe not directly associated with any civ.

Santa Anna would be a bit of an odd choice for México. After all, he lost the Mexican-American war and almost half Mexico's territory, why would they go with someone who lost almost half of its territory.

 

[timmychompchomp]

Hard pass from me. She was an odd, self righteous, mediocre artist. If she’s included in the game it will be an instant war declaration and utter destruction until she is excommunicated from the game.

 

[ehecatzin]

Santa Anna would be a bit of an odd choice for México. After all, he lost the Mexican-American war and almost half Mexico's territory, why would they go with someone who lost almost half of its territory.

And dissolved congress, and became a dictator, and after the war he came back and sold even more territory to the US....
Yeah I agree, I think people bring him up because that's what people learn about the Mexican-American war, but really he would be the worst choice, I'd rather see Frida before Santa Ana, at least she is just overrated not hated.

 

[Voidwalkin]

Hard pass from me. She was an odd, self righteous, mediocre artist. If she’s included in the game it will be an instant war declaration and utter destruction until she is excommunicated from the game.

I will adopt a similarly hostile approach.

I was going to adopt a hostile approach anyway. I'll just prioritize her destruction a bit more.

 

[Kyriakos]

Typically when you wish to give the message that civilizations are by and large the same, we are all the same (even more general, to the point it becomes a truism and unrelated) etc, you don't do it in more ways than one, ie by both having unrelated civs "advance" to each other AND have mere citizens who weren't leading states (and perhaps some won't even be involved in politics) be leaders of countries, moreover of countries where they never lived.
I think this game will have its own share of what made Victoria III (up to now) a pretty colossal failure.

 

[seasnake]

I think Benito Juarez was a paramount figure of a Mexican statesman, but could picture Frida getting the nod because she’s a woman and people have heard of her.

 

[Cuauhtémoc's Rage]

My take on this is that either Juarez or maybe Porfirio Diaz, as a leader focused on hyperindustrialization, are the likely choices. Juarez is probably the safer choice, though.

 

[ehecatzin]

My take on this is that either Juarez or maybe Porfirio Diaz, as a leader focused on hyperindustrialization, are the likely choices. Juarez is probably the safer choice, though.

I'll be devils advocate, a young General Diaz could be the way to add him, the "Mexican hero" era of Diaz life, rather than the old crusty dictator era. but even then controversy will follow, I think you are right, Juarez would be the safer choice, which is what I don't particulary like about Juarez, he is just so bland in comparison to the amount of interesting figures in Mexican history, not that he wasn't important, but Juarez is not someone I'd find interesting to design for a civ game.

Unless of course they actually give him a personality like in the Hark a vagrant comic

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

While I don’t necessarily advocate for Kahlo as a leader (I think she’d make an acceptable Great Person, if those still exist), I am pretty astonished at the level of animosity the OP’s suggestion provoked.

From what I understand, she was no more controversial than other famous artists. Why do some of you Fanatics seem to hate her?

I don’t ask this to antagonize, I’m genuinely curious. I never saw anything about her to dislike, not this profusely.

 

[Evie]

Or just go all in with Nintendo.

Mario (likes civ that jump to new tech/civics without going for any masteries)

Donkey Kong (likes civs with jungle tiles and bananas)

Link (dislikes civs that build Dungeons)

Okay, no kidding I woudl so be here for Super Smash Civvers as a separate spin-off, game mode or mod.

 

[Kyriakos]

There was some discussion, in another part of the forum, about whether Mario is fascist or not. The consensus seems to be that he is tied to nazi Germany anyway, whether he is Italian or Japanese

 

[Voidwalkin]

There was some discussion, in another part of the forum, about whether Mario is fascist or not. The consensus seems to be that he is tied to nazi Germany anyway, whether he is Italian or Japanese

Eh

Seems like parody.

 

[Kyriakos]

I never liked Mario, so don't mind slander against him

 

[moondog385]

I think Frida Kahlo would certainly be interesting. The blowback here from some is pretty ludicrous. As a leader for Mexico, she’d be a fine representative given the blending of native and modern Mexican elements in her art.

That being said, I would prefer artists to remain in their capacity as Great People — not leaders. And I’d also like to see much more of them. The impact of art on the human experience and vice versa cannot be overstated.

While I’ve softened on allowing people like Ben Franklin, Confucius, and Machiavelli, I think artists are a different beast. I wouldn’t wait Picasso to represent Spain or Shakespeare to represent England.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Shakespeare to represent England

As has been discussed elsewhere, I think certain writers are okay if they really capture the essence of the country they represent, and especially if they had political writings. Thoreau was mentioned.

But really I think including writers is a great opportunity to represent nations that otherwise wouldn't have a leader. As an example, if America didn't have Ben Franklin, I think Walt Whitman, Thoreau, Mark Twain, or John Steinbeck would all be fantastic Great People to include.

While this is quite removed from the topic at hand, I wanted an excuse to plug my favorite American writers

 

[Kyriakos]

On the other hand, it'd be pretty strange to have the leader of the US being H.P. Lovecraft.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Let me be clear: I’m advocating for including Writers as Great People for Civs that don’t have an associated leader.

With the (possible?) removal of universal Great People this is a pointless request… but I’d love for America to get a unique set of writers.

 

[moondog385]

Most of the Great People we’ve seen are of a diplomatic or mercantile variety so I’m holding out hope that the artists and musicians remain.

 

[Zaarin]

Most of the Great People we’ve seen are of a diplomatic or mercantile variety so I’m holding out hope that the artists and musicians remain.

Great Works are clearly still a thing, but we've seen no sign of Great Culture People. Perhaps they show up in the Modern era--but that sadly leaves out a great many interesting works.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Let me be clear: I’m advocating for including Writers as Great People for Civs that don’t have an associated leader.

With the (possible?) removal of universal Great People this is a pointless request… but I’d love for America to get a unique set of writers.

They would obviously have to have Founding Fathers.
But of course, Ben Franklin couldn't be one, because he's a leader.

Great Works are clearly still a thing, but we've seen no sign of Great Culture People. Perhaps they show up in the Modern era--but that sadly leaves out a great many interesting works.

Russia or France to me seems the most likely to get a set of Great Artists (Writers and Musicians too). France could get Philosophes and go the scientist/writer route like Greece.