What am I doing wrong?

[oosik]

1) Mines vs. irrigation: I had a city that was taking way too long to produce so I went about having a worker convert an irrigation to a mine to a get a few more shields hoping this would reduce production time. As it turns out the worker went ahead in auto-mode and converted it back to irrigation next turn. How do I keep it a mine? I checked the governor setup but couldn't find anything that would prevent them from converting it. If that worker didn't convert it another would. How do I keep improvements around my cities.

2) How do the rest of you manage your cities? Does anyone micro-manage every city or do you set the governeor to manage them? What about production, you or Gov? I have a tendency to let Gov manage happiness, food and something else but I manage what gets produced. I'm still trying to find my niche but still have problems with cities producing fast enough, i.e. less than 30 turns for a temple in a level 6 city.

3) Lately, I've been playing on regent level, my 2nd game so far at this setting and it seems that cities are taking longer to produce. Is this part of the difficulty setting or just my horrendous land mass I get stuck with, i.e. tundra, desert, plains, a tree here and there and if I'm lucky a stray cow for food.

Though I still don't get it, of everything I've researched here and on other sites, how the AI can spew settlers so damn fast with a spearman escort, but still takes me, at best, 6 turns to 30 turns?

And how is it that the AI can call upon is AI CIV counterparts to wage war against me on a moments notice, but to get anyone to side with me costs, a city or two, all my gold, half my luxuries and any techs they don't have. Certainly the AI doesn't require that of it's allies.

I love the game, it's fun as hell. Especially when I deploy to far-a-way locales with not much to do. But I think I'm forever stuck at the warlord level until I'm able to cheat the way the AI does. Yes I believe the AI has the advantage, too much I think.

I'm guessing it would be a different story against a human player.

That's it for now.
Frustrated Oosik

 

[Aggie]

Originally posted by oosik
1) Mines vs. irrigation: I had a city that was taking way too long to produce so I went about having a worker convert an irrigation to a mine to a get a few more shields hoping this would reduce production time. As it turns out the worker went ahead in auto-mode and converted it back to irrigation next turn. How do I keep it a mine? I checked the governor setup but couldn't find anything that would prevent them from converting it. If that worker didn't convert it another would. How do I keep improvements around my cities.

2) How do the rest of you manage your cities? Does anyone micro-manage every city or do you set the governeor to manage them? What about production, you or Gov? I have a tendency to let Gov manage happiness, food and something else but I manage what gets produced. I'm still trying to find my niche but still have problems with cities producing fast enough, i.e. less than 30 turns for a temple in a level 6 city.

3) Lately, I've been playing on regent level, my 2nd game so far at this setting and it seems that cities are taking longer to produce. Is this part of the difficulty setting or just my horrendous land mass I get stuck with, i.e. tundra, desert, plains, a tree here and there and if I'm lucky a stray cow for food.

Though I still don't get it, of everything I've researched here and on other sites, how the AI can spew settlers so damn fast with a spearman escort, but still takes me, at best, 6 turns to 30 turns?

And how is it that the AI can call upon is AI CIV counterparts to wage war against me on a moments notice, but to get anyone to side with me costs, a city or two, all my gold, half my luxuries and any techs they don't have. Certainly the AI doesn't require that of it's allies.

I love the game, it's fun as hell. Especially when I deploy to far-a-way locales with not much to do. But I think I'm forever stuck at the warlord level until I'm able to cheat the way the AI does. Yes I believe the AI has the advantage, too much I think.

I'm guessing it would be a different story against a human player.

That's it for now.
Frustrated Oosik

Oosik,

This is my point of few:

1. You have workers in auto-mode. If you don't like what they are doing, do it yourself! It takes more time, but the AI makes stupid decisions... So click on the worker and perform the terraforming yourself.

2. Micro-managing your cities will ultimately give better results. On regent you can coop with automated governer, but like I said before, the AI is stupid sometimes.

3. It's the land mass that makes it difficult to produce.

The AI isn't faster than you can be at regent. This is the level in which the setting for humans and AI are the same.

If you are at war with an AI civ, get the others to join. It costs money, sure, but you gain an allie. In later patches it's impossible to trade cities for a Military Alliance. In fact, a lot of bugs have been resolved and the AI is a lot smarter/more reasonable. It's best to download patch 1.29 here

And last but not least: we have a newbie thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38945 and a FAQ that you could read first http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23341

 

[TrailblazingScot]

You've been able to trade cities to the A.I?


What level of patch are you on?



As to your questions:

1. Irrigation at the start of the game is only necessary on plains.

Until you progress from despotism your workers should be digging mines and building roads as only with plains and a few bonus resources will you get any benefit from doing so.


AS for worker control (certainly on PTW which is what I play with a present) you can tell them to auto-do-up (whatever) without ALTERING so it won't change improvements already made. Hold your mouse cursor over the automate buttons the wroker has and it will tell you what each option is.


2. I ALWAYS have the governor manage happiness so I almost NEVER have civil disorder which wastes production (sometimes I force disorder to hold off construction of a palace which I want to convert to a later wonder).

I also put governors on maximise production. I have found that this in most cases doesn't require me to interfer.


3. At higher difficulty (above Regent!) the A.I gets a production bonus in that things don't cost as much to build. So it can produce more units such as settlers.

As for strategies...it is more fun to let people develop their own, I have many but they all depend on my circumstances, civ and the enemy.


In general expansion is vital, THEN boosting city population rapidly...and engage in wars only if you think you can win, otherwise give the tribute, rarely is 50 gold worth a war over.
Also note that the A.I gangs up on the weakest so if you are the weakest Nation don't pick a fight with nations that are able to buy allies...you are right, the A.I does seem to "buy" such allies cheaply!

 

[Bamspeedy]

1. If you are going to automate your workers, use Shift-A, not just 'A' or the automate button. Shift-A automates them, but they do not change existing terrain improvements (mines to irrigation). I recommend to NOT use any automation until you at least get out of despotism. This is because the automated workers will irrigated regular grassland while in despotism, which is a waste of time (because of the tile penalty). Don't irrigate grassland while in despotism unless it is a bonus resource (wheat, cattle) or you need to in order to get the irrigation to reach plains, desert, etc. Automated workers are not as efficient, so some players will recommend you manually move them for as long as possible, or for the entire game.

2. I like to use the governor to control happiness also. In some cases it is alot better to control this yourself, though. If a city is capped at size 6 (lacks aqueduct) or stuck at size 12 (before hospitals), assign the cities for max production since you don't need anymore excess food. One example I can think of, is if you are on all grassland, then when you are stuck at size 6, you will still be producing +2 extra food. Take 2 citizens off of regular mined grassland and place them on forests, so you'll gain some shields and be at -zero growth-.
While building wonders, I control these cities also for max production. You can squeeze a few more shields out of a city while it's growing by micromanaging, but if you let that city go into riots, then you end up losing most of what you were able to gain by micromanaging.
Emphasizing food or emphasizing shields depends on the situation. If you emphasize food, then the governor will prefer a tile that produces 2 food, but 0 shields over a forest (1 food, 2 shields). Most of the time I would prefer the forest, as the 2 food, 0 shields tile doesn't really do me much good.
You are right-Never let the governor decide what to build.

3. Settler production is mostly due to what terrain you start on. In despotism, food is harder to get than shields, so you usually want to irrigate the bonus resources. With no bonus resources (so you are producing +2 food), the fastest you can build settlers on average is 1 every 20 turns (10 turns with a granary), because it takes 20 turns to gain the 2 population points you lose by building the settler. If you are producing +5 food you can produce a settler every 8 turns on average (4 turns with a granary). As you can see, food is the most important thing. But within reason of course. You need some shields to be able to build settlers that fast, so this may be a problem if you start on a ton of floodplains.
A granary in your capital may be a good investment if you have the time to build it. Building a granary or not depends on terrain and map size (granaries are more worth it on larger maps where you have room to expand).
Use the luxury slider if needed, so you're not hiring so many entertainers. Regent level has less citizens that are born content than warlord and cheiftain.

 

[cracker]

Read this article on:

Improving Your Opening Play Sequences

and I would highly recommend that you stop automating your workers unless you want to be trapped forever in mediocre performance games. The AI wastes 15% to 30% of all the worker moves and this waste only gets worse as the game progresses.

The automated workers doe constant idiot things like hooking up a 4th or 5th saltpeter when you have access to Modern Armor or they will detour and build mines in captured corrupt frontier towns with 99% corruption.

Even automating them to specific cities or to ignore existing improvements will give up your major advantage in the game. You are the brain in the game and disconnecting your brain in favor of the AI's limited hardcoded sequence will always come with a cost.

 

[CrackedCrystal]

I'll mention it one more time. Don't automate workers. The execption to this is I tend to automate a few with Pollution cleanup only. Shift+P I think, better check me on that.

Early game I tend to mine everthing. Late game, I will irrigate floodplains and cattle grasslands. Plains I do about 50/50.

It really depends on the individual city. There is no one size fits all.

I also tend to not touch the desert until last. Then I will usually irrigate it, though if the city has a surplus of food, I will mine.

 

[sabo]

well I was gonig to say what everyone else said but first I was going to ask if anyone has seen killer

1 ctrl-A

2 the higher level you play the more micromanagement is required

3 the higher level you play the more advantages the AI gets

4 its' all part of being the human player, we have the advantage of cognitive thought where as the AI doesn't and needs some help

Your transition to higher level games would me much easier with alot of resourses, temples and cathedrals, then happiness is one thing that won't be a problem

3 regent is a good level, AI and human are equal

Oosik all this should be in the FAQ on this site.

 

[alamo]

I concur with the majority of opinons. Controlling workers directly at first is really the only option.

I have obserrved a worker alternately irrigating and mining myself. I suppose it is a good strategy to balance production vs growth in a small city.

As far as AI civs pumping out settlers w/spearmen, I have not figured that one out. It must have to do with founding a couple of high producing cities at first.

 

[JonathanValjean]

Oosik, I want to second Cracker's recommendation that you read "Improving Your Opening Play Sequences." Written by him, an analytical genius and a first-tier player, it will help you to improve your game by leaps and bounds.

 

[Willem]

Originally posted by oosik
1) Mines vs. irrigation: I had a city that was taking way too long to produce so I went about having a worker convert an irrigation to a mine to a get a few more shields hoping this would reduce production time. As it turns out the worker went ahead in auto-mode and converted it back to irrigation next turn. How do I keep it a mine? I checked the governor setup but couldn't find anything that would prevent them from converting it. If that worker didn't convert it another would. How do I keep improvements around my cities.

Shift-A will put them into auto mode without them affecting any other improvement. Ctrl-Shift-I will make them improve a particular city without altering previous improvements.

2) How do the rest of you manage your cities? Does anyone micro-manage every city or do you set the governeor to manage them? What about production, you or Gov? I have a tendency to let Gov manage happiness, food and something else but I manage what gets produced. I'm still trying to find my niche but still have problems with cities producing fast enough, i.e. less than 30 turns for a temple in a level 6 city.

IMO the Governor does a terrible job and should avoided except in extreme circumstances. The only time I use him is when I'm at war and War Weariness is starting to kick in. I'll allow him to manage the citizens moods, but I keep a close eye on him since he's likely to starve my people if I'm not paying attention enough to increase my Luxury spending.

3) Lately, I've been playing on regent level, my 2nd game so far at this setting and it seems that cities are taking longer to produce. Is this part of the difficulty setting or just my horrendous land mass I get stuck with, i.e. tundra, desert, plains, a tree here and there and if I'm lucky a stray cow for food.

No it's just your luck. There's no production penalties as you go up in level, at least not to my knowledge. I'm guessing your biggest problem is using the Governor. In the early game especially he should be avoided.

And how is it that the AI can call upon is AI CIV counterparts to wage war against me on a moments notice, but to get anyone to side with me costs, a city or two, all my gold, half my luxuries and any techs they don't have. Certainly the AI doesn't require that of it's allies..

I've never had a problem getting civs on my side. But then I've never really worried to much about what it costs. Though I've never been asked to give up a city. I'd have to draw a line there for sure. Most of the time though, I find their demands quite reasonable, and the effect it has on relations during and after the conflict are usually worth it.

Try building up your military. If you're fairly powerful, you might have better luck.

 

[JonathanValjean]

Originally posted by Willem


There's no production penalties as you go up in level, at least not to my knowledge.

Actually, the higher the level, the greater the corruption. Check out "other effects" in this link: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3infocenter.shtml#levels

Willem, kudos for the excellent job and effort spent in helping oosik in your extensive post.

 

[hbdragon88]

I'll mention it one more time. Don't automate workers. The execption to this is I tend to automate a few with Pollution cleanup only. Shift+P I think, better check me on that.

Um...I have 1.29, tried to do that...it didn't work.

 

[DaveMcW]

Shift-P only works if you have pollution, after it is all cleaned up the workers will activate again.

Shift-A works better if all your terrain is improved, the workers will sleep in cities until there is pollution for them to clean up.

 

[Globetrotter]

In other words, you wanna do something right, do it yourself!
I never used the automation, nor governor too...

 

[hbdragon88]

The governor beats the human hands down when it comes to managing citizen moods. Never have to take a second look or worry that I have to make some citizens entertainers. Or when I conquer a city and have to deal with resistance.

 

[Turner]

I was losing a lot of gold and shields due to cities going into disorder. Now that I use the g'nor for it, my cites rarely revolt. Every so often I need to take a hand in it.

It's not so much that I don't want to think about it, but I'm dealing with so much other stuff it's nice to not have to worry about something. My games take a couple of weeks each, micromanaging would make them that much longer.

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

The governor is great, I agree. gets rid of a lot of micromanaging. But there are some instances where you just might need to intervene. If you see that your governor is assigning too many citizens to be entertainors in cities, its obviously time to raise the luxury rate. Also, if you have a city that cannot grow anymore for any reason, and your governor is assigning citizens to food tiles, you might wanna step in and change things around a lil.

 

[Globetrotter]

What i do before ending each turn is just quickly scroll down in the F1 screen, and check for the amount of unhappy faces v/s the happy ones for each city (can be viewed really quickly)

Then i can tell if a city will go into disorder or not, and quickly zoom on it and fix it by assigning an entertainer.

However, if lots of cities have more unhappy faces than happy ones, then i check the lux rate and set it accordingly.

 

[oosik]

I care not what anyone says, the AI knows my every move and therefore do what it needs to do....sometimes referred to as cheating, I will refer to it as unfair advantage. Especially at REGENT level.

I attempted 3 Regent games, only to quit due to the overwhelming desire of the AI to incoporate all other AI civs in an alliance against me. Needless to say no amount of bargaining would get any civ to allie with me. I offered 3 cities to one civ just for an alliance and they wouldn't do it??????? To me, that's BS! I hadn't been to war at that point, I wasn't controlling anything really important. The only thing I managed to do was build the great library, that's it. Next thing I know, within 10 turns I had 8 of the 11 civs wanting war. To me that is an "unfair advantage", there is nothing equal about being able to call upon all other civs at a moments notice for an alliance. If so, then I should be able to do the same thing and I can't.

That said, i stepped back a difficulty and started managing my workers, building mines everywhere and what-not. And yes, it is effective. It didn't seem so at first. I realized by looking at the city screen and seeing where the "production borders" were i was best able to decide where to improve what. Also tried keeping the the inner-continent cities 5 squares apart to make best use of land.

So far it's okay, though Greece is absolutely huge right now and has just got a ROP with Spain and have attacked me without warning. I'm about 3rd on the list. My army isn't huge but was preparing to gaff the Babs when Greece started with me!

Still can't get a settler out sooner than 6 turns early on in the game with a city full of mines and roads so i don't know how the AI can do it???????

I need to have a sit-down with Sid and ask him wassup wit dat!

 

[Globetrotter]

Originally posted by oosik
I care not what anyone says, the AI knows my every move and therefore do what it needs to do....sometimes referred to as cheating, I will refer to it as unfair advantage. Especially at REGENT level.

Wait till you get to Deity

Originally posted by oosik
I attempted 3 Regent games, only to quit due to the overwhelming desire of the AI to incoporate all other AI civs in an alliance against me. Needless to say no amount of bargaining would get any civ to allie with me. I offered 3 cities to one civ just for an alliance and they wouldn't do it???????

In later versions, the AI gets very suspicious with city trading... Dunno if it has to do with difficulty level too.

Originally posted by oosik
I need to have a sit-down with Sid and ask him wassup wit dat!