What ancestries do Jewish-Americans declare?

[sophie]

Somehow the question in the original post seems odd. It reminds me of the stunning realization by some in my Spanish classes that one could speak Spanish and yet possess any kind of appearance imaginable (as black as midnight or as rubio as Nordic people). It's rather like stating the ancestry of Christianity, Islam, or Buddhism. One can be of any ethnicity and be of all of these religions.

It's kind of like asking the ancestral indentification of atheists.

You don't want to go down this rabbit hole. Trust me.

 

[Domen]

Somehow the question in the original post seems odd

It can be formulated differently, but it will be much longer in such case.

Here is the same question, differently formulated:

Among self-declared Russian-Americans, what proportion are Jews and what proportion are Christians?
Among self-declared German-Americans, what percent / proportion are Jews and what % are Christians?
Among self-declared Polish-Americans, what % are Jews and what % are Christians?
Among self-declared ... -Americans, what % are Jews and what % are Christians?
etc., etc., etc. (for each ancestry from U.S. censuses)

This is - basically - what I've wanted to know.

 

[Domen]

And I disagree that it's the majority of their ancestry that is the sole deciding factor for ancestry. In America, some people are wildly proud of their Native American ancestry to such a degree that they will call themselves Native-American even when less than 10% of that ancestry.

OK, and what is wrong with such approach? I am also proud of my preferred ancestry despite admixtures of foreign blood.

Everyone is mixed to some degree, this is not a mystery, it is all about culture, heritage, identity, etc. - not genes.

Why do you claim that self-identifying with some ethnic group is odd. There is no such thing as 100% ethnic-specific genetic components.

There are certain genetic components which correlate with certain ethnic groups, but never perfectly.

E.g. due to a large number of people interested in checking Jewish roots via DNA tests, a thing called Cohen Modal Haplotype was constructed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

But there are surely many practicing Jews with generations of Jewish ancestors, who do not fall within the Cohen Modal Haplotype spectrum.

It doesn't make them any less Jewish, even if they are genetically "exotic" for Jews (rather than having DNA "typical" for ethnic Jews).

 

[Crackerbox]

Anyone is free to define anything as anything, but then a word has no meaning, does it? If so, it's not an objective bit to be selected but a subjective choice based upon an internal idea of Self and an imposed one by upbringing to determine what Self means.

It means one cannot ever expect all Jewish-Americans to chose one label as their ancestry anymore than one would expect all Orthodox Christian Americans to chose one ancestry either. It's illogical.

I care not if someone claims a label, but if the variety spans too great a definition, in philosophy that word no longer has any debatable meaning. Their choice to self-identify from a statistical strandpoint is bad science. Garbage In/Garbage Out. There's no point to such a census to occur because it doesn't compute.

The only thing one could ever hope to take from it would be if you had 100% compulsion to answer based upon strict definition, and then it wouldn't be an honest census. As a lot of people made no choice then it's also a flawed scientific survey as well as perhaps a political statement that's it's none of the American government's business (particularly due to history).

Think about a survey among American in which they labeled themselves along a continuum from one to ten as never honest to always honest. It's complete garbage scientifically as it's entirely subjective. So too is a government census to determine any logical conclusions about identity. You cannot come to a logical conclusion, only compile meaningless data, and probably data to be sold to marketers to target a selected niche. It's grotesque.

 

[Domen]

I'm just 100% American

And continue to be a 100% American, if you want. Every ethnic group emerged from numerous ancestral ethnic groups or tribes.

The same is the case with Americans. After 1000 years from now, nobody in the U.S. will remember that they once were something else than Americans.

This is the process of ethnogenesis. Ethnic groups do not arise from one couple rising children and grandchildren, who then constantly inbreed with each other, but through alliances between tribes and ancestral ethnic groups, which unite and melt into a single ethnic group with one language and culture.

Americans are a very young ethnic group, most of them are not sufficiently integrated yet to consider themselves 100% Americans.

It means one cannot ever expect all Jewish-Americans to chose one label as their ancestry anymore

Of course Jews also have their ethno-cultural subdivisions - Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews, Mizrahi Jews, etc.

The only thing one could ever hope to take from it would be if you had 100% compulsion to answer based upon strict definition

Or just allow people to give as many responses to ancestry question as they want, not just one or two ancestries.

 

[Crackerbox]

And continue to be a 100% American, if you want. Every ethnic group emerged from numerous ancestral ethnic groups or tribes.

The same is the case with Americans. After 1000 years from now, nobody in the U.S. will remember that they once were something else than Americans.

This is the process of ethnogenesis. Ethnic groups do not arise from one couple rising children and grandchildren, who then constantly inbreed with each other, but through alliances between tribes and ancestral ethnic groups, which unite and melt into a single ethnic group with one language and culture.

Americans are a very young ethnic group, most of them are not sufficiently integrated yet to consider themselves 100% Americans.


Of course Jews also have their ethno-cultural subdivisions - Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews, Mizrahi Jews, etc.

Even this is nonsense because no nation in history maintained the same borders over time. In 1000 years, the National Borders of America could include parts of Canada and Mexico, or be lost to either. As such, new citizens would be introduced with their own ideas of Self and so forever alter their self-identifcation.

Did any citizen in history ever consider they were French alone, or Russian? Nope. People will always break themselves into some segment of society and so you won't get universal answers on any census. Say you did, then what would you scientifically gather as your conclusions? It's a meaningless survey, nothing more.

In American History, few people ever claimed to be 100% American. There were some who were white conservatives who did, but if honest at parties were proud of say their German heritage, so it's a nonsensical aspect of claiming one thing in public and then saying something else entirely based upon social situations. Why bother doing a census in this way?

 

[Domen]

Even this is nonsense because no nation in history maintained the same borders over time.

Political borders and ethno-linguistic / ethno-cultural borders are two different things, though.

Take a look for example at the Umayyad Caliphate, established by expanding Arabs in the 7th century AD. Many parts of that Caliphate became ethnically Arabized, people now speak Arabic and practice Islam in these regions (e.g. Egypt). But, some areas which were part of that Caliphate did not become ethnically Arabic, despite adopting Islam - for example Kurdistan. Some other populations within that Caliphate neither started speaking Arabic, nor adopted Islam.

It requires often a sufficiently long political control over an area for ethno-linguistic assimilation to take place.

Another thing is that ethnic groups can emerge, exist and develop even without having their own political entities, independent states.

in 1000 years, the National Borders of America could include parts of Canada and Mexico

They already do include huge swathes of what used to be Mexico before 1846.

 

[Domen]

Did any citizen in history ever consider they were French alone, or Russian? Nope. People will always break themselves into some segment of society and so you won't get universal answers on any census.

That's because identity can be like matryoshka doll - smaller things inside larger things.

Say for example that you are human, European, French, Picardian, etc., etc.

 

[gay_Aleks]

You don't want to go down this rabbit hole. Trust me.

The rabbit hole usually turns to be a sink hole leading you to the centre of the world.

 

[Agent327]

Political borders and ethno-linguistic / ethno-cultural borders are two different things, though.

Indeed. Borders, by definition are political. There's no such thing as 'ethno-linguistic'(?) or 'ethno-cultural'(?) borders. That's why we speak of American Jews (not: 'Jewish-Americans'), French Jews, Israeli Jews etc.

 

[Domen]

Yes, borders are politicial. Boundaries is what I meant.

That's why we speak of American Jews (not: 'Jewish-Americans')

Who are "we" ???

http://www.pbs.org/jewishamericans/

Israeli Jews

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined as a "Jewish state."

And also: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/Other_Law_Law_of_Return.html

 

[Agent327]

Who are "we" ???

http://www.pbs.org/jewishamericans/

Anybody who can read: Jewish Americans, American Jews, not Jewish-Americans.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined as a "Jewish state."

And also: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/Other_Law_Law_of_Return.html

We didn't know this you think?