What can be done to help the paratroopers?

[JisL]

I recently had a random game in which the map consist of 1 large continent with 9 civs, including myself (35% land on a large map)

Since almost everyone is around, it was only the late industrial age that i learned of the last civ on a 3 small isolated islands far off mainland.

It takes me 3-4 turns to move my transport to the nearest of the 3 and again since everyone is around, i did not developed naval power and was so wondering how I could eliminate that pesty little civ that keeps having embargo and war declared on me in the quickest time possible.

Since they are so isolated, they are mostly spearman and a few rifleman.
I ended up sending an army of M1s and a Bradleys to conquer a city and establish a beachhead. The captured workers I got from destroying their city, I used to build an airfeld. Then I airlift my paratroopers in and the other 2 islands are just within the drop range and I saved myself the trouble of have to load/unload my unit to and from the 3 island using transport.

 

[Bluemofia]

but how are paratroopers going to help you when they have m1s and all that stuff.

 

[IsTinPoliBoy]

Paradrops taking up a turn wouldn't be so bad if the paratroopers had infantry or mech infantry stats. If that were the case, though, you ought to be able to just airlift your infantry into enemy territory.

 

[JisL]

I para drop to the 2 even smaller islands closeby from the enemy's main island and since these smaller island has only 1 city each, my paratrooper managed quite well (with some help from my stealth bomber of course ) and I do not have to re-transport my M1s after clearing out the 5-6 cities on the main island 2 more times after that, plus in paradrop, in can conquer all 3 islets simultaneously without using 3 transport (which I only have 2 anyway)

Also, after razing those 2 cities, with the resulting captured workers, I build another airfield each on the 2 islands and airlift cum paradrop them back to the main continent. (I do not want the islands as they are too far away off shore to be of any good)
This to me saves time, compared to have to load/unload my tanks onto the transport and then wait 3-4 turns for them to reach home.

 

[Bluemofia]

do you mean that you can airlift with airbases?

 

[JisL]

Yes you can, airports as well as airfield, but only 1 unit per turn per airport or airfield, except you cannot airlift an army. So for offshore engagement, the beachhead - airfield - airlift techique has become quite handy for me.

 

[Bluemofia]

or, you can engage the airlift anywhere cheat, and airlift tanks into the enemy city.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Just for the record, the 101st was the main unit at Bastonge, but not the only one. There were several other units stationed there, and remnants of many more that retreated there during the first couple of days of the Bulge. Finally, the 101st was *not* airdropped there behind enemy lines. They were already there, dug in, with a full complement of artillery (and anti-tank guns).

Now undoubtably, their paratrooper training (make do with what you have after the drop) allowed them to coordinate and take maximum advantage of their extra guns and other units. And while they were certainly not about to be overrun the day the 3rd Army broke through--seven days after being surrounded--they also were not in a position to hold out indefinitely. One of the reasons that they were able to maintain such a fierce defense is that they held a relatively large pocket. Once the skies cleared, this allowed airdrop of supplies to be much more effective than it would for a single paratroop division deeper behind enemy lines. The knowledge that Patten was flattening opposition to the south, and thus they would not need to hold indefintely, no doubt played a part as well.

I'm not sure how they could be made more useful in the game that wouldn't also unbalance it. Probably more range on the aiddrop would be the biggest thing. (IIRC, the developers have said that this is a code limitation, though that might have been before they changed the air mission range.) In a WWII-like situation, one of the biggest uses of paratroops is the threat of where they might drop. That forces the defender to use garrisons where he might not normally--on critical resources behind the lines, for example. The railnet being cheap to build and ultra effective is really the problem. If rails were 1/10 movement or similar based on map size--and expensive enough to build that each civ had a railnet instead of doing every square--then paratroops on some key hills blocking the rails would be pretty devastating. Following them up with glider borne infantry wouldn't be bad, either.

 

[JisL]

Nope, I try not to play with cheats, it takes the fun out of game, airbases or airfield allow you to airlift units like an airport. And since it takes a while to build an airport in a newly conquered city, I like to build one or more airfields around my new city if I need to bring in reinforcement in a hurry since it only takes 1 turn and a worker to do that (that is, if said city is not connected via railroad). At least that is so in all my games so far.

 

[Mirv Sheelon]

I personally have beefed up their stats, bot TOO muchand given a small defensive bombard. They ARE elite units and should not just be pushed over.

Also - I just cannot understand why people think they are useless. Thats just crazy! Used like they would be in RL they are perfectly useful.

If you know you are going to be going over the border soon enough you obviously stockpile your conventional arms tanks etc. When doing this, get a few heli transports and load em up. Drop the Paras on any resources/undefended moutains anything that might be of any use to the enemy and commence your attack.

It gives you an extra turn, maybe, to deprive the enemy of reinforcements/resources. As in RL if support is not forthcoming for them they will be defeated.

 

[Underseer]

I think part of the problem is that gamers have a somewhat distorted view of "useful" and the game offers a somewhat limited model of miliatary actions (understandable as it is more than just a military game).

Gamers want the very best thing available at any given moment and anything else is useless. In real life tanks almost always work in conjunction with infantry. In Civ III, stacks of tanks often work alone.

Paratroopers do have a use, but it's so limited few bother using it. As in real life, paratroopers force the enemy to divide his attention instead of being able to focus all counter attacks on your advancing front line. This doesn't happen in Civ3 because the player is better off advancing a smaller number of tanks on the ground than a larger number of mixed units (tanks, infantry, paratroopers).

You know what would really help paratroopers? Making tanks cost more to maintain (2 gpt instead of 1 gpt).

 

[Mirv Sheelon]

Along those lines - Im going to experiment with making Tanks and more technical units double the price to build in the first place. Battleships and naval units will be x3 and likewise Air units x3 or x4.

Another argument FOR paras or at least para/special forces units: Given the Hidden Nationality ability and ability to paradrop, a pre-emptive drop by airborne units is more than paid for by your SF dropping in and severing rail nodes, or capturing important chokepoints prior to your main assault. Use your imagination guys!

 

[Fanny Brice]

Paratroops have a "shock" affect when used. The enemy suddenly has to deal with thousands of troops in their rear area... this will ruin any defensive plan. The paratroops in Civ 3 loose any surprise affect when they can not attack on the turn they land. All initiative goes over to the enemy as the paratroops are immediately on the defensive.

Paratroops should have slightly (only slightly) higher attack values. They should be able to attack on the turn they land. This would make them effective at pillaging a resource, taking out a radar tower, taking a weakly defended city, or killing off weakened troops.

Perhaps to offset their offensive capabilities, they should susceptible to enemy anti-aircraft. If hit, they take 1-2 damage upon landing.

 

[icewall]

I have to agree with Underseer. "Useless" to many gamers means anything not uber. Allowing standard paratroopers to move on the turn that they drop would turn them back into the uber units that they were in Civ II, and ruin the game IMO.

With a real airborne division you're talking about 20 thousand people dropping into an area of several square miles. They have to regroup, in addition to locating and securing supplies, all on foot. Not to mention the big 'IF' - if the weather and other factors cooperate to allow a timely drop.

When you are talking about modern commandos in the real world, you do see small groups that can drop and move quickly. That is completely different unit than an airborne division though. I could see a type of Civilization unit that could move on its drop turn, but it would have completely different stats.

Here’s my suggestion:

Ranger battalion – 7/1/1 airdrop, able to move after airdrop; available @ satellites (tech)
Cost: 100 (ballpark)

Design choices: The 7 attack power represents a highly trained unit geared toward a fast offense. I slightly inflated this to represent the unit’s preferred method of attacking with stealth and surprise. It can take out an enemy marine or other weak foe, but none of the heavy hitters. The 1 defense is justified by the fact that it is dangerously undermanned and completely unsuited for static defense. The communication and surveillance abilities of satellites are necessary to employ these units effectively (and they aren’t always inserted with parachutes, so synthetic fiber is not a requisite).

I think the neat thing about a unit like this is that it would suddenly make paratroopers a lot more useful to use in tandem with. Use the ranger to attack and clear the drop zone, while a conventional paratrooper lands to protect this powerful but expensive unit from certain destruction. That is very similar to how a drop would work in real life.

I could also see giving this unit the stealth attack ability as well, at the expense of a higher unit cost.

Now the only problem is that the game engine apparently doesn’t allow units that drop and move on the same turn. So creating a unit like this might take some work.

 

[10Seven]

During the latter Vietnam War the US had airbourne troops on standby - the promise to their troops in the fire bases being, 'if you are going to be over-run, we'll send the cavalry'. As such, if it had been necessary, those airbourne troops would have parachuted directly into a combat zone heavy.

In the scenario 'My Vietnam', Paratroopers have increased movement, allowing for an immediate attack. I think this is realistic as far as they are concerned - though, actually, the reason I originally gave them that was to conform with infantry units, which have higher movement overall - allowing for retreat against armour...

 

[Mano3]

Paratroopers (and air-assault units) are primarily used to disrupt/distract the enemy in his territory, destroy communications and defenses, and hold key areas/roads/bridges.

I'm talking WWII above (Normandy Invasion), but today's paratroopers can be used as a major offensive force utilizing the Strategic Brigade Airdrop (SBA) procedure. Using Air Force heavy lifters (C-5/C-17), an entire airborne brigade, complete with support, can be dropped on a location. They still share some of the problems their WWII brothers faced - limited supply & equipment and stuck behind enemy lines. Their firepower and numbers pack a powerful punch, but they are still mainly used as a holding force until the main-line units can link up with them.

I guess that's why the CIV guys stuck with the high defense/low offense criteria.

One 'airborne' unit that might might bridge the gap is the air assault unit. Based out of Fort Cambell, these soldiers specialize in suprise assault by using helicopters to bring them swiftly into a target area. They then quickly repel and go into action. Again, more offense than a paratrooper, but lower numbers and lower logistics still hamper their mission.

 

[Bluemofia]

the only way paratroopers have a chance in the modern age is if you drop plenty of them, and if you place them in a good position (where the rails don't take the tanks far enough and then they get a turn of safety)

 

[EdwardTking]

The Germans successfully deployed Paratroopers in Crete in WW2 to capture airfields to enable reinforcements to fly in.

My view is that paratroops should:

(i) remain weak attackers and defenders
(ii) remain expensive
(iii) be able to move once on landing
(iv) be vulneranle to being shot down like air units
(v) be loadable on a bomber in place of bombs

 

[Mano3]

Originally posted by EdwardTking
My view is that paratroops should:

(iii) be able to move once on landing
(iv) be vulneranle to being shot down like air units
(v) be loadable on a bomber in place of bombs

Make a lot of sense, especially #3

 

[Goober]

I use Paratroopers (Infrequently) to launch them behind enemy lines, and cut off resources. They are meant to deny resources, but to cut Communications, and Vital Land Bridges. I especially like cutting off Mountain roads, then fortifying the Paratroopers to deny the road.

In the very least, the Enemy has to take out the Paratroopers, which means they have to use military units to take out the Paratroopers.