What Civ are you most surprised is missing?

[Krajzen]

Only with expansions.

Yeah, only now I have realized the comment said base roster, sorry.
This way I agree - I never understood why Babylon took place of Sumer in base roster. I mean, it was great and important civilisation, but much less important than Sumer which is the first civilisation ever in the world history and great ancestor of Babylon.

It's one of those silly inconsistences of yet "primitive" Civ1 which was skewed towards very popcultural view of history (fortunately later iterations slowly became less stereotypical). Civ1 initial roster of civs and leaders was very weird:
- No Sumer, first and most important civilization, among 14 "key" ones, but Babylon instead - because it's more known.
- Mao and Stalin, murderers of dozens of millions, somehow being completely fine leaders while Hitler was not.
- Very minor and, frankly, very primitive Zulus as "black civ representation" because they were more known - instead of incomparably better black civilisations such as especially Ethiopia, or Swahilli, or Mali, or Nubia, or Zimbabwe.
- Gandhi, guy who never was the political leader (unlike all other leaders of civ1) somehow chosen as the leader of India - because he's more known
Geez... I'm so happy later iterations moved on, at least regarding first two points

 

[Vesslan]

Mongolia. Biggest empire in human history should be in this game. Period.

 

[ales_]

Biggest empire in human history should be in this game. Period.

The British Empire is in the game, represented by England.

 

[killmeplease]

No Sumer, first and most important civilization, among 14 "key" ones, but Babylon instead - because it's more known.

yeah it seems average human knows very little about Sumer if anything at all.
so waiting another 25 years for the Harappan civ

 

[ehecatzin]

Now that Russia is released, e see there is no "forest-bonus" civ and no "hills/mountain" civ.

Makes the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee and Inca's absence feel huge.

Yeah makes me hopefull they are not so far behind for dlc release, specially the Inca, it seems they had a lot of interesting ideas for a mountain civ back in civ5 (the Pueblo) I can imagine them revisiting the concept and adding it to Incas we know. It'd be really interesting to see the Incas taking advantage of mountains like there's no tomorow.

 

[Leyrann]

Netherlands of course.

Totally not biased here.

 

[civplay]

How is Mongolia not included? Second largest Empire in the world... One of the most influential empires on top of that. I mean Russia (which is the third largest empire of all-time) was arguably founded by the Mongols as a way to govern that part of the world. Russia a playable civ was nothing more than a province for Mongolia. Let that sync in...

My thoughts: they never really felt right to me in Civ V. The military dominance yes, but Mongols were more than just that. Historically they stabilized land trade from Europe to Asia and created a world wide boom and tech boom due to this. The biggest problem with Civ V was never quite getting trade right. And until that happens a civ who's greatest non-military achievement was stabilizing world trade will never feel quite right.

Same with Persia. How, why is this not included?
Byzantine sorta: i literally never played as them in any of the civ though....
Portugal isn't there either. Brazil is, but Portugal isn't... Brazil was literally a province of Portugal. Brazil playable. Portugal not

 

[killmeplease]

Historically they stabilized land trade from Europe to Asia and created a world wide boom and tech boom due to this.

thats hilarious
did they also legalize gay marriages?

 

[killmeplease]

you can see how good mongols were for the chinese economy

and russia isnt on the graph, its southern parts were literally devasted
genghis khan killed 10% of the world population, its like 5 hitlers
stop praising those barbarians, its an insult to humanity

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

you can see how good mongols were for the chinese economy

and russia isnt on the graph, its southern parts were literally devasted
genghis khan killed 10% of the world population, its like 5 hitlers
stop praising those barbarians, its an insult to humanity

I recommend you read this book: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/93426.Genghis_Khan_and_the_Making_of_the_Modern_World

History isn't black and white. Also, that graph is worthless as it has no title and the axis are unlabeled.

 

[SMcM]

The Zulus, Byzantine.

Weren't both of those not in Civ 4 or 5 vanilla? I would not have expected them in the game initially.

 

[Abraxis]

yeah it seems average human knows very little about Sumer if anything at all.
so waiting another 25 years for the Harappan civ

I have always wanted this as well. The Nile, Mesopotamia, and Indus Valley aught to have been represented in every game right from the start as a staple of the series. It's only a shame we know so little of Harappa, but with the... creative liberties... they've taken with Sumer, I don't see why they couldn't find some way to represent them.

 

[Zelda1983]

I am missing Mongolia. They must be a DLC Civ.

 

[killmeplease]

I recommend you read this book: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/93426.Genghis_Khan_and_the_Making_of_the_Modern_World

History isn't black and white. Also, that graph is worthless as it has no title and the axis are unlabeled.

i think this book is BS.
on the graph its population size

 

[Zaarin]

I have always wanted this as well. The Nile, Mesopotamia, and Indus Valley aught to have been represented in every game right from the start as a staple of the series. It's only a shame we know so little of Harappa, but with the... creative liberties... they've taken with Sumer, I don't see why they couldn't find some way to represent them.

To be fair, though, the creative liberties taken with Sumer are ahistorical for Sumer, but Sumer as presented could literally be turned into Assyria by changing the city-list, replacing the war cart, and changing Gilgamesh's name to "Ashurbanipal." Also there's a big difference between Sumer and Harappa: Sumer doesn't need creative license because the Sumerians were meticulous record keepers who left thousands of clay tablets detailing everything from poetry to historiography to economic transactions. An accurate Sumerian civilization would not be difficult to create had the developers actually done any research whatsoever. By contrast, we know nothing of the language spoken by the Indus Valley civilization (it may have been Proto-Dravidian, but then again it may not have), no names (or details) of their leaders, and very little of their customs. An Indus Valley/Harappan civilization would be pure invention.

Part of the problem with Civ6 Sumer is that it's based on the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is not a Sumerian epic but a Babylonian one. Consequently, Civ6 Sumer comes across as Assyro-Babylonian. Such a shame, too, when so much Sumerian data is available on every aspect of Sumerian life. Babylon and Assyria have better name recognition because the Sumerians were absorbed by them, and by the time the Greeks and Romans came along to record everything the Sumerians had been all but forgotten. Nevertheless, archaeology has probably yielded more about Sumerian customs and daily life than we actually have on the Babylonians or Assyrians.

 

[Abraxis]

you can see how good mongols were for the chinese economy

and russia isnt on the graph, its southern parts were literally devasted
genghis khan killed 10% of the world population, its like 5 hitlers
stop praising those barbarians, its an insult to humanity

i think this book is BS.
on the graph its population size

It really is useless to judge anyone from so far back in history by our own moral standards. There's no way to appreciate what life was like for them, and if you can't appreciate how justifiable their behaviour could be relative to this, I think you lack appreciation for the diversity of possible entirely valid perspectives, and the general range of human behaviour. Even today if you walk two towns over from where you live you'll find people with totally alien perspectives as you, and neither of you is more right than the other. 1000+ years ago in a totally different environment on the other side of the world... what's the point.

All we can do is learn from them, without judgement.

 

[killmeplease]

It really is useless to judge anyone from so far back in history by our own moral standards. ... You're just looking for someone to hate.

Some people will say this about nazis in 2100s advocating for their inclusion in civ26 or writing junk books about how good they were for the civilization. Its not like other historical rulers/cultures were angels, they just didnt produce so much distruction. history isnt black and white but sometimes its much closer to black than to white.

 

[Abraxis]

Some people will say this about nazis in 2100s advocating for their inclusion in civ26 or writing junk books about how good they were for the civilization. Its not like other historical rulers/cultures were angels, they just didnt produce so much distruction. history isnt black and white but sometimes its much closer to black than to white.

And if these people live on Europa after global catatrophy on earth has collapsed society, leaving them with only fragments of data to reconstruct our history they'd feel right in doing so, and how could they know any better either way. Or maybe those fragments came from Nazi sources, and they adopt Nazi principles. Who would be alive to call them wrong?

There isn't a single society whos hands aren't incomprehensibly drenched in the blood of those who declared their ways wrong with a whole lot more conviction and justification than you. The closest you can get to looking objectively and without significant bias at who is right is looking at who's still alive, and I don't think anyone actually finds justice in that.

 

[kaspergm]

I'm still kind of lost for words on the fact that Brazil is in and Inca are out.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

I'm still kind of lost for words on the fact that Brazil is in and Inca are out.

Because Olympics.