What cultures would you like to get added the most?

[PSG]

Weren't Sea peoples linked to Sherden,
people of Sardinia and ancestors of Nuragic civilization? They could be much better incarnation of the idea of sea peoples than Philistines
who had ridiculously small population and territory (iirc like five towns and no more than twenty thousand people). Them being such an epic foe is just Bible's way of giving hilariously small backwater context of Palestine a grand literary embellishment. Generally any archeological estimations of Palestines population in ancient era are hilariously low in context of all those epic tales of great wars. Honestly I don't even know what affinity would I give to classical Hebrew culture itself, because all I have read on the subject has convinced me that the area was third rate backwater of ancient Middle East, and would remain such in consciousness if not the fact Judaism and Jewish culture were born here (and great scientific and commercial role of Jews wasn't even until medieval era, and achieved in faraway diaspora).

Mana from Heaven i.e. some bonus towards food production

 

[Jkchart]

I went with
-Etruscans, a nice lineage for Europe to have and the perfect game to represent them. Such a fascinating early culture that deserves representation. I would also love the Nuraghe builder culture (Nuragic, or Sards if that feels better to use)
-Ancient Andean, Early American and South America in general deserves more love
-Han Chinese, China should have a culture every era, and who better than the one who gives the Chinese ethnicity its name?
-Classical Andean, see above
-Medieval East Asian, Again, China, probably the Song which also makes sense to go alongside the Mongols
-Inca, if it’s in Medieval that’s fine but EM would be a bit better and we can give the Medieval slot to the Chimu or something
-Muscovy, we should have a Russian line, and Muscovy was super influential
-Early Modern Subsaharan, Songhai would work well, or Kongo, just PLEASE something other than Merchant for an affinity
-Qing, again China, but also the Qing were peak Chinese expansion and so much happened. Really missed out not having them in the base game (though I would also love Meiji Japan)
-Industrial African like Ethiopia/Ashanti, perhaps Ethiopia but as Abyssinia so we can also have a modern Ethiopia, which is still important and vital to the region
-Vietnam, I love seeing southeast asian cultures, and after so many cool contemporary designs I’d love to see them subvert our expectations on how they’d design Vietnam
-Contemporary Subsaharan, Nigeria was mentioned earlier and I’d absolutely support that as a choice

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The Sea Peoples are (probably*) not mythical, but the Atlanteans are. The Olmecs have archaeological evidence of their existence; the Atlanteans do not. There are more than enough interesting historical cultures without resorting to euhemerized myths like the Atlanteans and Aesir and Tuatha de Danann. . . .

Atlantis is based entirely on an essay by Plato in which he uses it as a stylized example of a society. It MAY have been based on the society/culture of Minoan Crete, in the sense that the Minoans were more cultured, sophisticated, and in some ways technologically superior to Plato's own Greek/Achaean ancestors. If you want to include "Atlantis", just call them Minoans . . .

As for the Sea Peoples, the way to include them would be as a Minor Faction Event, because there is quite a bit of evidence for them as minor players in the eastern Mediterranean going back centuries before they 'exploded' as an invasion/migration that crashed much of the Bronze Age political entities.
Among them were the Sherden (Shardana), who were both pirates and provided mercenary infantry and bodyguards for the Pharaohs (they were present at the Battle of Kadesh, for instance). They may have been from Sardinia, but could also have been proto-Sikels from Sicily. The Lukka were from southwestern Anatolia, the Peleset may have been "Phlistines', the Teresh and Ekwesh (or Akwash) seem to have been from the Aegean Islands, the Shekelesh possibly from southern Italy or Sicily, the Alashiya may have been from Cyprus. . .

Lots of uncertainty about origins, the one 'common thread' is that they all came south at about the same time. Back in the 1960s Rhys Carpenter hypothesized a set of periodic climate variations that made agriculture chancy in northern Europe and Central Asia and drove peoples south, causing the Sea Peoples, Indo-Europeans, Dorian Greek migrations, and even the later Germanic Volkerwanderung of the 4th - 5th centuries CE. His thesis has been disproven by modern techniques like ice cores, dendrochronologies, and archeological pollen counts that allow us to track the weather/climate pretty accurately, but it remains true that periodically a large number of people suddenly decide to play Musical Chairs with their more settled neighbors with catastrophic results for almost everybody involved . . .

An early Civ version (III or IV) had a Barbarian Horde mechanic where periodically a Barbarian Camp would suddenly spawn a dozen or more barbarian horsemen and you'd have a serious Migration Problem on your hands. Something similar that, in a Humankind instance, suddenly made all the Minor factions on one side of the map pack up and move south, east, west or north would be a nice way to show the periodic "Barbarian Migrations" and make the Minor Factions a lot more interesting . . .

 

[Jkchart]

Atlantis is based entirely on an essay by Plato in which he uses it as a stylized example of a society. It MAY have been based on the society/culture of Minoan Crete, in the sense that the Minoans were more cultured, sophisticated, and in some ways technologically superior to Plato's own Greek/Achaean ancestors. If you want to include "Atlantis", just call them Minoans . . .

As for the Sea Peoples, the way to include them would be as a Minor Faction Event, because there is quite a bit of evidence for them as minor players in the eastern Mediterranean going back centuries before they 'exploded' as an invasion/migration that crashed much of the Bronze Age political entities.
Among them were the Sherden (Shardana), who were both pirates and provided mercenary infantry and bodyguards for the Pharaohs (they were present at the Battle of Kadesh, for instance). They may have been from Sardinia, but could also have been proto-Sikels from Sicily. The Lukka were from southwestern Anatolia, the Peleset may have been "Phlistines', the Teresh and Ekwesh (or Akwash) seem to have been from the Aegean Islands, the Shekelesh possibly from southern Italy or Sicily, the Alashiya may have been from Cyprus. . .

Lots of uncertainty about origins, the one 'common thread' is that they all came south at about the same time. Back in the 1960s Rhys Carpenter hypothesized a set of periodic climate variations that made agriculture chancy in northern Europe and Central Asia and drove peoples south, causing the Sea Peoples, Indo-Europeans, Dorian Greek migrations, and even the later Germanic Volkerwanderung of the 4th - 5th centuries CE. His thesis has been disproven by modern techniques like ice cores, dendrochronologies, and archeological pollen counts that allow us to track the weather/climate pretty accurately, but it remains true that periodically a large number of people suddenly decide to play Musical Chairs with their more settled neighbors with catastrophic results for almost everybody involved . . .

An early Civ version (III or IV) had a Barbarian Horde mechanic where periodically a Barbarian Camp would suddenly spawn a dozen or more barbarian horsemen and you'd have a serious Migration Problem on your hands. Something similar that, in a Humankind instance, suddenly made all the Minor factions on one side of the map pack up and move south, east, west or north would be a nice way to show the periodic "Barbarian Migrations" and make the Minor Factions a lot more interesting . . .

Civ III did that mechanic, the "Barbarian Uprising" (cue military advisor's hat popping off in shock!)

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Civ III did that mechanic, the "Barbarian Uprising" (cue military advisor's hat popping off in shock!)

It's been so long since I played either Civ III or IV that I can't remember which one had which feature/mechanism any more. Thanks for the clarification.

The original Civ III mechanic was pretty 'gamey', but a mechanic in which something (climate?) could trigger a mass migration of Barbarians and/or City States that you had to deal with somehow would be, I think, a loverly way to keep gamers on their toes.

And, in keeping with the concept that every in-game event should have both positive and negative consequences, when facing Fulliautomatix the Gaul and his 200,000 followers, you should have the option of inviting them to cross your lands and attack them nasty neighbors Over There, or, if you have the open territory, settle them within your own borders, or even bribe them somehow: there should always be more than one way to handle a Crisis, and sometime you can come up with a positive result - at least for you, if not for your neighbors!

 

[Jkchart]

It's been so long since I played either Civ III or IV that I can't remember which one had which feature/mechanism any more. Thanks for the clarification.

The original Civ III mechanic was pretty 'gamey', but a mechanic in which something (climate?) could trigger a mass migration of Barbarians and/or City States that you had to deal with somehow would be, I think, a loverly way to keep gamers on their toes.

And, in keeping with the concept that every in-game event should have both positive and negative consequences, when facing Fulliautomatix the Gaul and his 200,000 followers, you should have the option of inviting them to cross your lands and attack them nasty neighbors Over There, or, if you have the open territory, settle them within your own borders, or even bribe them somehow: there should always be more than one way to handle a Crisis, and sometime you can come up with a positive result - at least for you, if not for your neigbors!

You bet!

All these suggestions are perfect. Independent People are one of the biggest let downs for me right now so I hope we get some more mechanics like this.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

You bet!

All these suggestions are perfect. Independent People are one of the biggest let downs for me right now so I hope we get some more mechanics like this.

I can understand the desire on the part of designers of both Humankind and Civ for a 'clean' design, with each category: Minor Factions, Major Factions, Civ's Civilizations, "Barbarians" and City States - having a precise and different set of potentials and actions, but there is so much potential for making the games more dynamic by revising the "Non-Player Factions" like the Minors and City States and Barbs.

Specifically in Humankind, why can't a Minor Faction occasionally break out the music from Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries and come swarming out of the woodwork to harass the nearest Major Faction(s)?

Why can't a Minor Faction, instead of Declining into Ruins, occasionally become a Major Faction? Right now, on the largest maps, there may not be any Major Faction for it to become, but after a few DLCs, there should be 'extra' Factions in most or all Eras, so why not allow them to be used? Humankind can do this 'adding' of Major Players during the game better than Civ, I think, because the various Factions are divided by Era - adding one to a later Era does not require anything prior, the 'new' Major Faction simply gets, perhaps, a Legacy Trait or two that can be coded into the Minor Faction and you're off and running.

With all the talk on the Forums for both games about the Late Game/End Game Slog or Run-Away - and it is a real problem for both games - having an 'extra' Major Faction suddenly show up in the Early Modern or Industrial Age wold definitely shake up the late game . . .

 

[PSG]

Whatever cultures get added there needs to be more than one of each culture types for each era. Not getting one's preferred culture is part of the game, but not getting a culture that fits your strategy is another.

 

[Jkchart]

Whatever cultures get added there needs to be more than one of each culture types for each era. Not getting one's preferred culture is part of the game, but not getting a culture that fits your strategy is another.

I do agree that there needs to be 2 of each for every era.

I question whether there will be ANY militarist in the final era, which on the one hand i get due to the controversial nature of the label but on the other it blocks off a whole category of fame that cannot be used for affinity bonuses (I mean...what could we use? Yugoslavia maybe, not sure bout a second that wouldn't result in lots of anger, and Yugo would already probably be...controversial and there may be a better choice...though Yugoslavia would be an excellent contemporary choice IMO).

 

[Elhoim]

Argentina - Industrial (Builder/Aesthete) ; South America doesn't have an Industrial era representation, and I feel like Argentina could fill a sweet spot as a culture focused on industry and culture.

Argentina as a builder won't make a lick of sense, though. The main source of income is food products, and the only time it kinda industrialized was in the late 1940's, way after the industrial era. If anything, the lack of heavy industrialization is something that characterizes our country.

 

[NombreyApellido]

heavy industry means a specific class or type of industries, for instance siderurgy, naval, petrochemical and even nuclear

all of which the state itself of argentina had control of up to the neoliberalism of the 70s onwards... so it certainly would fit better in the last era

if it was up to me though, it would be an INF focused culture considering all of its contribution to the arts, sports and its heavy societal identity that permeates neighbouring countries such as uruguay, paraguay, bolivia and perú both historically and in present day

 

[Jkchart]

I worked on a Caral Culture proposal for the ancient era, and I quite like what I came up with (though I am by no means an expert), they are very fascinating. Attempted to distinguish them from the Olmecs and the peaceful nature of the Harappans. Wouldn't mind if Amplitude stole this btw (hint hint @Catoninetales_Amplitude jk)
-Ancient Era. Why? Easy, they disappeared many centuries before the typical classical age.
-Orientation: Agrarian. Why? Research shows that Caral population centers were massive, possibly rivaled only by those in China during the same time period. To do this would require a lot of food - there's competing evidence here of a developed maritime food culture, as well as possible maize cultivation (previous research shows there was never a staple crop but that has been eroded in recent days). I almost went with builder because of their massive monumental architecture, but honestly having some of the highest potential population counts in the ancient world shows me that I think Agrarian is perfect.
-Ability "Maritime Staples" - +1 Food on Coastal Water, +1 Food on Lake, -50% Harbor industry cost. Why? As above, the large evidence of maritime culture points to something needing a buff for food from the sea. I added the Industry cost reduction to encourage harbor creation and settling near the coast. This also distinguishes them a bit from the Harappans who are focused on rivers and the land.
-Emblematic Quarter - "Temple Complex". +3 Food. +1 Farmer Slot on City or Outpost. +1 Food from adjacent Farmers Quarter. +10 Stability (OR just +3 Stability for each adjacent quarter). Acts as a Farmers Quarter for bonuses. Exploits Food. Why? Keeping with the theme of well-organized, high population centers, this encourages high growth and also covers the inland agricultural production. The Stability boost acts as a way to help keep these larger population centers together with more districts earlier. There isn't really a good name I found for these, so if anyone else has an idea for the name that would be cool.
-Emblematic Unit - "Balsa". replaces Pentekonter, costs 70 industry, 1 Upkeep, 1 Population cost, 20 strength, Moves 4, range 1. Coastal Raft: Destroyed by spending more than 1 turn in deep water; +2 moves if starting turn in friendly coastal water. Why? Balsa is the word used for Peruvian rafts, which were used for thousands of years up to even just a couple hundred years ago. it seems like they had incredible range for a raft, so I created an alternative "Coastal Vessel" type that gives bonus moves to the raft if starting in friendly coastal terrain, but dies after a turn in deep water. It's cheaper than a Pentekonter (appropriately), but since there's no evidence that the Caral were warlike (and it likely wouldn't stand up to a full ship in combat), I've also made it weaker. It might need another point or two off, but I think it fits best for any possible Unit for them, rather than taking a leaf from the Harappans and making another Scout replacement.

Cities: Huaricanga; Caral-Supe; Aspero; Pativilca; Porvenir; Vinto Alto; Shaura; Upaca; Lurihuasi; Huaural

EDIT: And if anyone has suggestions, please feel free of course. It was fun researching these people.

 

[Karmah]

I worked on a Caral Culture proposal for the ancient era, and I quite like what I came up with (though I am by no means an expert), they are very fascinating. Attempted to distinguish them from the Olmecs and the peaceful nature of the Harappans. Wouldn't mind if Amplitude stole this btw (hint hint @Catoninetales_Amplitude jk)
-Ancient Era. Why? Easy, they disappeared many centuries before the typical classical age.
-Orientation: Agrarian. Why? Research shows that Caral population centers were massive, possibly rivaled only by those in China during the same time period. To do this would require a lot of food - there's competing evidence here of a developed maritime food culture, as well as possible maize cultivation (previous research shows there was never a staple crop but that has been eroded in recent days). I almost went with builder because of their massive monumental architecture, but honestly having some of the highest potential population counts in the ancient world shows me that I think Agrarian is perfect.
-Ability "Maritime Staples" - +1 Food on Coastal Water, +1 Food on Lake, -50% Harbor industry cost. Why? As above, the large evidence of maritime culture points to something needing a buff for food from the sea. I added the Industry cost reduction to encourage harbor creation and settling near the coast. This also distinguishes them a bit from the Harappans who are focused on rivers and the land.
-Emblematic Quarter - "Temple Complex". +3 Food. +1 Farmer Slot on City or Outpost. +1 Food from adjacent Farmers Quarter. +10 Stability (OR just +3 Stability for each adjacent quarter). Acts as a Farmers Quarter for bonuses. Exploits Food. Why? Keeping with the theme of well-organized, high population centers, this encourages high growth and also covers the inland agricultural production. The Stability boost acts as a way to help keep these larger population centers together with more districts earlier. There isn't really a good name I found for these, so if anyone else has an idea for the name that would be cool.
-Emblematic Unit - "Balsa". replaces Pentekonter, costs 70 industry, 1 Upkeep, 1 Population cost, 20 strength, Moves 4, range 1. Coastal Raft: Destroyed by spending more than 1 turn in deep water; +2 moves if starting turn in friendly coastal water. Why? Balsa is the word used for Peruvian rafts, which were used for thousands of years up to even just a couple hundred years ago. it seems like they had incredible range for a raft, so I created an alternative "Coastal Vessel" type that gives bonus moves to the raft if starting in friendly coastal terrain, but dies after a turn in deep water. It's cheaper than a Pentekonter (appropriately), but since there's no evidence that the Caral were warlike (and it likely wouldn't stand up to a full ship in combat), I've also made it weaker. It might need another point or two off, but I think it fits best for any possible Unit for them, rather than taking a leaf from the Harappans and making another Scout replacement.

Cities: Huaricanga; Caral-Supe; Aspero; Pativilca; Porvenir; Vinto Alto; Shaura; Upaca; Lurihuasi; Huaural

EDIT: And if anyone has suggestions, please feel free of course. It was fun researching these people.

For the sake of buffing an early boat (which I find a bit meh) and encourage a 'early water scouting' as it seems to be the intent behind the unit, I'd give the Balsa a +1 sight radius

 

[Narcisse]

-Emblematic Unit - "Balsa". replaces Pentekonter, costs 70 industry, 1 Upkeep, 1 Population cost, 20 strength, Moves 4, range 1. Coastal Raft: Destroyed by spending more than 1 turn in deep water; +2 moves if starting turn in friendly coastal water. Why? Balsa is the word used for Peruvian rafts, which were used for thousands of years up to even just a couple hundred years ago. it seems like they had incredible range for a raft, so I created an alternative "Coastal Vessel" type that gives bonus moves to the raft if starting in friendly coastal terrain, but dies after a turn in deep water. It's cheaper than a Pentekonter (appropriately), but since there's no evidence that the Caral were warlike (and it likely wouldn't stand up to a full ship in combat), I've also made it weaker. It might need another point or two off, but I think it fits best for any possible Unit for them, rather than taking a leaf from the Harappans and making another Scout replacement.

Eventually, for your Balsa idea. It could be an unit which is not a replacement (if it's weaker than pontekonter). But unlocked on the same tech than pantekonter. Or even unlocked earlier. There are arleady some units like this in the game.

 

[Jkchart]

For the sake of buffing an early boat (which I find a bit meh) and encourage a 'early water scouting' as it seems to be the intent behind the unit, I'd give the Balsa a +1 sight radius

Eventually, for your Balsa idea. It could be an unit which is not a replacement (if it's weaker than pontekonter). But unlocked on the same tech than pantekonter. Or even unlocked earlier. There are arleady some units like this in the game.

these are excellent ideas! Thank you for the thoughts