What did France do to be considered one of the major allies?

[RulerOfDaPeople]

I find it funny that a Canadian is complaining about not doing nothing during the war. I'm inspired to watch the South Park movie again.


About France, I think part of their UN power has to do with a "thank you" for the help they gave during the Revolution and the long standing alliance between the USA and France. That's all. A payback and reccognition of the marriage between the 2 nations.

 

[Dachs]

About France, I think part of their UN power has to do with a "thank you" for the help they gave during the Revolution and the long standing alliance between the USA and France. That's all. A payback and reccognition of the marriage between the 2 nations.

The thank you was Black Jack, a couple million warm bodies, a massive industrial base, significant investment opportunities provided to said French, etc., etc. Also the War of 1812. And the United States did that even after the French dicked around with us in the Quasi War. Conclusion: there are far better reasons.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I don't know that World War I was as much of a thank you as World War II was. I know we got so much more prestige for the first go-round, but as has been argued many times, Allied victory was inevitable, we simply accelerated the process.

 

[Agent327]

About France, I think part of their UN power has to do with a "thank you" for the help they gave during the Revolution and the long standing alliance between the USA and France. That's all. A payback and reccognition of the marriage between the 2 nations.

As already stated, that's too simple. In truth, the French Empire still stood after WW II, whereas the British was already falling apart into the Commonwealth and beyond; so UN Security Council membership was more of a recognition of the actual situation (which didn't get corrected after 1949).

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

What do you mean "falling apart into the Commonwealth?" The Commonwealth had been the name of the Empire for a while (late 19th Century) and the relationship that existed postwar in most of those nations was practically identical to those laid down by the Statute of Westminster in 1931.

Also, its not as if the French weren't facing serious problems in their empire. They were immediately involved in fighting the Viet Minh in Indochine, which they lost horribly.

 

[Disenfrancised]

And the United States did that even after the French dicked around with us in the Quasi War.

...after the US gave the commercial advantages the French had been promised for their support to the British, leaving the French with a mounting fiscal problem. Realy theres been dicking around on both sides from the get go.

 

[Agent327]

The British Commonwealth de facto recognized Canada's and Australia's independence; South Africa left the Commonwealth and in 1947 Britain lost their imperial crown: India/Pakistan. The Frenhc decolonization process took a little longer and was more violent (especially in Algeria and Vietnam). I was referring to the post-WW II situation, as this was most relevant to the UN and the Security Council setup.

 

[Disenfrancised]

The British Commonwealth de facto recognized Canada's and Australia's independence; South Africa left the Commonwealth and in 1947 Britain lost their imperial crown: India/Pakistan. The Frenhc decolonization process took a little longer and was more violent (especially in Algeria and Vietnam). I was referring to the post-WW II situation, as this was most relevant to the UN and the Security Council setup.

Oz and Canada had de jure independent action since 1931, and the rest of the colonies were fast-tracked to independence as unlike the French, it was realized that the Empire was fiscally unsustainable after the damage and debts of WW2. Ending the empire made Britain more serious as security council member, as they could actually afford to do stuff again.

 

[Dachs]

I don't know that World War I was as much of a thank you as World War II was. I know we got so much more prestige for the first go-round, but as has been argued many times, Allied victory was inevitable, we simply accelerated the process.

...after the US gave the commercial advantages the French had been promised for their support to the British, leaving the French with a mounting fiscal problem. Realy theres been dicking around on both sides from the get go.

I'm just pointing out how silly it is to call the Second World War and the postwar relationship a gift from America to repay for de Lafayette, de Rochambeau, and de Grasse.

 

[Verbose]

The British Commonwealth de facto recognized Canada's and Australia's independence; South Africa left the Commonwealth and in 1947 Britain lost their imperial crown: India/Pakistan. The Frenhc decolonization process took a little longer and was more violent (especially in Algeria and Vietnam). I was referring to the post-WW II situation, as this was most relevant to the UN and the Security Council setup.

Um, about the question of violence:
Indochina and Algeria were very, very large and violent affairs. They were also pretty special cases for the French, as colonies go (Algeria technically/administratively not even a colony). But apart from those, which French decolonisation processes were violent? Madagascar comes to mind, but what else?
Morocco, Tunisia, Syria, Lebanon, and all of sub-Saharan Africa were released pretty much by the stroke of a pen.

By comparison, the UK had violent episodes as part of its decolonisation process, "small wars" as the Victorians labeled them, in Palestine 1948, the "Malayan Emergency" 1948-60, Kenyan "Mau-mau rebellion" 1952-60 (deaths by the tens of thousands, and a pretty dirty war fought by the British), Cyprus 1954-59, Suez 1956 (OK with the French, but it wasn't a French former colony, or a French Canal Zone), Aden 1962-67 (the whole of southern Arabia more like)...

 

[sheep21]

regarding Suez, the French government were also share holders in the Canal. The whole reason for Suez was to get back the canal. The invasion was like debt collectors going in to take back stolen property.

Malayan Emergency was mainly fought in the jungles against at most 5000-9000 Chinese (not Malayan) Communists and was successfully concluded. The only time a Communist gurellia insurgency has been fought and beaten and is still seen as a model of how to fight asymetric warfare.

The business in Algeria was not just a colonial war, it tore at the very fabric of the french republic... President removed from office by what was in all but name a bloodless coup, massacres and an intrinsic inability to recognise that Algeria wanted indepenence.

You will note that Malaya & Kenya both granted independence peacefully soon after the insurgent & irregular forces acting in both countries had been successfully defeated by British forces and have maintained generally good relations with Britain ever since. Can the same be said for Algeria or Indochina?

The UK handled decolonization alot better than the French did in most cases although it has to be said that both France and the UK were miles better than the debacle of the Belgian pullout from the Congo...

Back on topic:
France deserved her seat, Postwar she still possessed a large Empire in Africa and the Pacific aswell as significant (if already rebellious) holding in south east asia. With vast injections of US capital investment France could once again feel good about herself and her position in the world (aswell as nursing its injured pride from WW2).