I may get slapped by a history buff since I know little about the Huns, but I got curious about this, and followed up on the Tengri reference. It seems right on.
These rotating sun symbols belong to the Kyrgyz and others (e.g. Huns).
Spoiler :
What do all of the civ insignias mean?
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I may get slapped by a history buff since I know little about the Huns, but I got curious about this, and followed up on the Tengri reference. It seems right on.
These rotating sun symbols belong to the Kyrgyz and others (e.g. Huns).
Esoteric Arcane
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Interesting, I learned something new, Ive always referred to the Egyption Eye symbol as Eye of Ra, been reading about Horus. Both being possibly true as long as it is referring to the right eye but are actually not the same. (just look the same sometimes). http://www.egyptological.com/2011/04/eye-of-ra-eye-of-horus-1155
Interesting, but the site doesn't mention Tengriism in any way.
Unfortunately not, but it offers evidence of a shared usage of symbols among Huns and other Central Asians who follow Tengrism. I was looking for a closer link between the Huns and the known users of the sun symbol, and hope this source provided that link.
cuc
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I may have found something about the Songhai symbol (inspired by Wudairou, though he didn't quite make the discovery I did):
The Civ5 pedia specially mentioned the "terabeba" blankets in the Songhai factoid section. Astonishingly, there seems to be zero picture of terabeba on the internet (all you can find are a few Civ5 files, and one photo of Muslim geometric patterned ceramic tiles). However, this does point us toward a direction.
Do a google image search using "mali textile", and you can get quite a few pictures of the Mali "mudcloth", and their patterns are strongly reminiscent of the Songhai symbol.
Pic 1: a circle divided into 4 (source)
Pic 2: diagonal cross pattern (source)
Pic 3: another cross pattern (source)
The source site of Pic 3 has several more examples, and you can see both the diagonal cross and small dots are common motifs for mudcloth. The Songhai symbol would fit nicely among them.
In conclusion, it seems the Songhai symbol may actually have some basis in Western African culture.
The Civ5 pedia specially mentioned the "terabeba" blankets in the Songhai factoid section. Astonishingly, there seems to be zero picture of terabeba on the internet (all you can find are a few Civ5 files, and one photo of Muslim geometric patterned ceramic tiles). However, this does point us toward a direction.
Do a google image search using "mali textile", and you can get quite a few pictures of the Mali "mudcloth", and their patterns are strongly reminiscent of the Songhai symbol.
Spoiler :
Pic 1: a circle divided into 4 (source)
Pic 2: diagonal cross pattern (source)
Spoiler :
Pic 3: another cross pattern (source)
The source site of Pic 3 has several more examples, and you can see both the diagonal cross and small dots are common motifs for mudcloth. The Songhai symbol would fit nicely among them.
In conclusion, it seems the Songhai symbol may actually have some basis in Western African culture.
great finding.Makes more sense than my conclusion. I'll rewrite it when I find the time
.
What is the Civ4 Ottoman symbol? I think it's sufficiently different from the Civ5 tri-crescent.
Personally I'd say it's just a crescent, with the Islam related interpretations. While different from the Civ5 symbol, I don't think the meaning is another one.
But I'd be happy if someone proved me wrong
.Flying Mathias
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Oh, indeed, that seems to be it.
Can anyone think of a good explanation?
It seems they've choosen a general turk related symbol instead of an ottoman symbol, but I'm not sure what the reason could be.
Can anyone think of a good explanation?
It seems they've choosen a general turk related symbol instead of an ottoman symbol, but I'm not sure what the reason could be
.Oh, indeed, that seems to be it.
Can anyone think of a good explanation?
It seems they've choosen a general turk related symbol instead of an ottoman symbol, but I'm not sure what the reason could be
Ottoman Empire is a Turkic empire no matter how many different cultures and peoples they ruled (after all, empires meant to be like this). So the symbol is relevant.
Crescent have been one of the most popular celestial elements among Turkic people of Eurasia. There are many theories about crescent and various edged stars in Turkic culture and how are they related to mythology or Tengriism. It is complicated topic for research but I explained it briefly in this thread.
ZeroGravity46
Chieftain
I am new to this site, but I have been playing Civ 5 so much I decided I may as well join! Pleased to meet everyone on here. I also had a burning question that I can't figure out on my own.
I know most all the symbols used on the flag emblems in Civ 5, and understand why they're used. But can anyone tell me what the symbol for Attilla is, and where it's from? It seems to be a stylized sun, but I am unaware where this is from. Was it made just for Attilla in-game, or does it trace back to Hunnish roots?
I thought I'd ask on here, since so many of the posters here are knowledgeable. I just created an account here, but I've been reading you guys for months when I am stumped on something haha
I know most all the symbols used on the flag emblems in Civ 5, and understand why they're used. But can anyone tell me what the symbol for Attilla is, and where it's from? It seems to be a stylized sun, but I am unaware where this is from. Was it made just for Attilla in-game, or does it trace back to Hunnish roots?
I thought I'd ask on here, since so many of the posters here are knowledgeable. I just created an account here, but I've been reading you guys for months when I am stumped on something haha
I understand that, but I don't really understand why they took such a broad icon. The ottoman empire is a better defined group than e.g. the vikings, so there's no need to choose a generic icon.
whatever. The explanation fits at least
. Now I just need time to write it together 
.Moderator Action: Merged with the main flag thread.
And welcome to the forums
.Please take a look at the previous page. It seems that it might be a sun, which is in Tengriism, the religion of the huns, a son of Tengri, the main god.
Option
Officer Dog
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With the release of Gods & Kings, 9 new civilizations and, of course, with them, symbols have been added. Of course, there also are a massive amount of new symbols with the many scenarios that have been released, so maybe we can investigate them. =)
Austria:
This is an odd selection for Austria, since it is actually the Bundesadler, the coat of arms used for the republic. The royal eagle of the Austrian Hapsburg dynasty was two-headed, and held different items. The symbols on the republican eagle are the sickle for farmers, the hammer for workers, and a wall crown for the bourgeoisie. The icon used in Civ 5 misses the broken chains on the eagle's legs, which stand for freedom of the Nazi occupation after WW2.
Byzantium:
The symbol is the Byzantine or Orthodox cross, which is used as a symbol for the Orthodox Christianity which was founded in Byzantium during the Great Schism. The difference between the standard Christian cross and the Orthodox one is that the Orthodox cross has a slanted footrest, and a second cross bar.
Ethiopia:
The Lion of Judah is an important symbol for Ethiopia. Its importance is twofold. For once, it is a symbol directly representing Haile Selassie and his Rastafari movement. However, the symbol's ties with Ethiopia are much older, and generally represent the imperial dynasty of Ethiopia.
Sweden:
The three crowns, Tre Kronor in Swedish, have been a widely used emblem in Scandinavia since the 13th or 14th century, and then turned into the national symbol of Sweden after Gustav Vasa terminated Sweden's membership of the Kalmar Union.
The Netherlands:
Taken from the Dutch royal coat of arms, the symbol represents a crowned lion holding a sword and a bundle of 7 arrows. Fittingly, the coat of arms was introduced by William himself. However, lions as coats of arms have been used for a long time before the Netherlands were even founded - almost all of the city states and small duchies in the area were using lions of some sort in their coat of arms.
Celts:
A traditional Celtic flower design. Not sure where it comes from specifically, though.
And those where I don't know anything about...
Maya:
Huns:
Carthage:
Maybe a reference to Hannibal's crossing of the alps with elephants?
As for the Scenarios...
Anglo-Saxon England:
This might be a reference to some early cross design? I don't know where it comes from, though.
Normandy:
Quite a traditional symbol, the coat of arms of Normandy has been 2 golden leopards on red background for a long time. Occasionally 3 leopards are used (such as in the coat of arms of the United Kingdom), however, the 2 cats are the more common ones.
Norway:
Another traditional coat of arms, Norway's lion holding an axe - which is named den norske løve in Norse. Apparently the prototypes for this symbol date back to the 11th century.
Almohads:
This is based on the flag of said dynasty, which is a chess board on a red flag. The symbol version is simply stylized.
Ayyubids:
An alteration of Arabia's symbol in the standard game. The Ayyubids used a purely golden flag for their realm - the crescent moon and star in the middle have the same color. But since all civilizations need 2 colors, I guess the lighter yellow was added.
Hittites:
Based on a carving found in a former Hittite temple in Alaca Höyük, Turkey.
Sumer:
Lamassu, a Sumerian deity.
Manchuria:
Based on the Qing dynasty's flag, a blue dragon with a pearl on golden background. The rest of the dragon's body was removed.
Goths:
Based on Visigoth eagle brooches.
Franks:
A stylized version of the Carolingian cross.
Vandals:
No idea.
The symbols for Samoa, Tonga and Tahiti in the Polynesian scenario are simply variations of Polynesia's Koru. And of course the Empires of the Smoky Skies symbols are completely fictional.
Austria:
This is an odd selection for Austria, since it is actually the Bundesadler, the coat of arms used for the republic. The royal eagle of the Austrian Hapsburg dynasty was two-headed, and held different items. The symbols on the republican eagle are the sickle for farmers, the hammer for workers, and a wall crown for the bourgeoisie. The icon used in Civ 5 misses the broken chains on the eagle's legs, which stand for freedom of the Nazi occupation after WW2.
Byzantium:
The symbol is the Byzantine or Orthodox cross, which is used as a symbol for the Orthodox Christianity which was founded in Byzantium during the Great Schism. The difference between the standard Christian cross and the Orthodox one is that the Orthodox cross has a slanted footrest, and a second cross bar.
Ethiopia:
The Lion of Judah is an important symbol for Ethiopia. Its importance is twofold. For once, it is a symbol directly representing Haile Selassie and his Rastafari movement. However, the symbol's ties with Ethiopia are much older, and generally represent the imperial dynasty of Ethiopia.
Sweden:
The three crowns, Tre Kronor in Swedish, have been a widely used emblem in Scandinavia since the 13th or 14th century, and then turned into the national symbol of Sweden after Gustav Vasa terminated Sweden's membership of the Kalmar Union.
The Netherlands:
Taken from the Dutch royal coat of arms, the symbol represents a crowned lion holding a sword and a bundle of 7 arrows. Fittingly, the coat of arms was introduced by William himself. However, lions as coats of arms have been used for a long time before the Netherlands were even founded - almost all of the city states and small duchies in the area were using lions of some sort in their coat of arms.
Celts:
A traditional Celtic flower design. Not sure where it comes from specifically, though.
And those where I don't know anything about...
Maya:
Huns:
Carthage:
Maybe a reference to Hannibal's crossing of the alps with elephants?
As for the Scenarios...
Anglo-Saxon England:
This might be a reference to some early cross design? I don't know where it comes from, though.
Normandy:
Quite a traditional symbol, the coat of arms of Normandy has been 2 golden leopards on red background for a long time. Occasionally 3 leopards are used (such as in the coat of arms of the United Kingdom), however, the 2 cats are the more common ones.
Norway:
Another traditional coat of arms, Norway's lion holding an axe - which is named den norske løve in Norse. Apparently the prototypes for this symbol date back to the 11th century.
Almohads:
This is based on the flag of said dynasty, which is a chess board on a red flag. The symbol version is simply stylized.
Ayyubids:
An alteration of Arabia's symbol in the standard game. The Ayyubids used a purely golden flag for their realm - the crescent moon and star in the middle have the same color. But since all civilizations need 2 colors, I guess the lighter yellow was added.
Hittites:
Based on a carving found in a former Hittite temple in Alaca Höyük, Turkey.
Sumer:
Lamassu, a Sumerian deity.
Manchuria:
Based on the Qing dynasty's flag, a blue dragon with a pearl on golden background. The rest of the dragon's body was removed.
Goths:
Based on Visigoth eagle brooches.
Franks:
A stylized version of the Carolingian cross.
Vandals:
No idea.
The symbols for Samoa, Tonga and Tahiti in the Polynesian scenario are simply variations of Polynesia's Koru. And of course the Empires of the Smoky Skies symbols are completely fictional.
Option
Officer Dog
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Well even if you don't add them to the site, it's still interesting to discuss them.
Also, the Dutch symbol from Civ IV is actually the coat of arms from Holland, not the Netherlands.
Also, the Dutch symbol from Civ IV is actually the coat of arms from Holland, not the Netherlands.
Well even if you don't add them to the site, it's still interesting to discuss them.
Sure
.Still not sure how to organize scenario info
, but that question doesn't really belong here .mmhh...oh...not the same then.
I guess that can be added as note to the Civ5 symbol, because the differences in the meaning are more or less negligible (IMHO).
Option
Officer Dog
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Not really negligible. Holland is a province of the Netherlands, and although it's the most important one, and the Netherlands are referred to as Holland by many people (including the Dutch themselves), it still is only a part. And before the Netherlands existed, Holland was an independent country that used that lion coat of arms.
Would be akin to - since you are German - saying the flag of Bavaria is the same as the flag of Germany or something of the like.
Also, sorry if some of the information I provided was redundant; I must've overlooked the last page when reading through the thread.
Would be akin to - since you are German - saying the flag of Bavaria is the same as the flag of Germany or something of the like.
Also, sorry if some of the information I provided was redundant; I must've overlooked the last page when reading through the thread.
Not a problem, more info is always welcome .
If the flags looked remotely the same, then maybe.
Here we have a lion, and another lion, presenting only a part of the other lion. And the lion is also used by the other provinces, so IMHO stretching it out to all provinces is not a problem.
And I don't say it's the same, just close enough. An explanation like yours would be totally sufficient as addendum to the Civ5 flag entry.
.Not really negligible. Holland is a province of the Netherlands, and although it's the most important one, and the Netherlands are referred to as Holland by many people (including the Dutch themselves), it still is only a part. And before the Netherlands existed, Holland was an independent country that used that lion coat of arms.
Would be akin to - since you are German - saying the flag of Bavaria is the same as the flag of Germany or something of the like.
If the flags looked remotely the same, then maybe
.Here we have a lion, and another lion, presenting only a part of the other lion. And the lion is also used by the other provinces, so IMHO stretching it out to all provinces is not a problem.
And I don't say it's the same, just close enough. An explanation like yours would be totally sufficient as addendum to the Civ5 flag entry
.
Option
Officer Dog
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The lion of Holland doesn't hold sword and arrows, though. And the actual color scheme of the 2 coats of arms are different too; Holland's has a red lion on yellow background, while the royal coat of arms is yellow on blue background.
I think William I chose the lion because it is so commonly used in most (if not all) Dutch provinces, and the duchies that existed before the founding of the Netherlands.
I guess if you want to take similar flags, then maybe the Nordic countries would be a better example. And believe me, you don't want to say that Finland is the same as Sweden, or Sweden is the same as Denmark - the people will murder you.
And the actual color scheme of the 2 coats of arms are different too; Holland's has a red lion on yellow background, while the royal coat of arms is yellow on blue background.I think William I chose the lion because it is so commonly used in most (if not all) Dutch provinces, and the duchies that existed before the founding of the Netherlands.
I guess if you want to take similar flags, then maybe the Nordic countries would be a better example. And believe me, you don't want to say that Finland is the same as Sweden, or Sweden is the same as Denmark - the people will murder you.
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