What do I do with that blasted Red Dragon?

[lordrune]

You know, the one that gets created in a Barbarian city every game? Acheron, I think his name is.

The stats of this thing are, I think, 19/21 or something, with four first strikes. That's what I saw when I moved my warriors next to his city (I hadn't caught on that the beast was there beforehand ).

Just how do you take something like that out?

 

[Demus]

for one, the stoneskin (most of the first strikes, 2 of the defence points) is removed after the first combat, which helps quite a bit. Catapults help bringing his health down (aswell as the city defence), after that it's heaps of axemen/champions/chariots . Having a unit like the baron deliver the killer blow helps a lot aswell (you gain a lot of exp from the dragon, which shouldn't go to waste).

remember, he's got fear, so you need "courage" (lvl 1 spirit spell i think) to allow your units to attack.

Alternatively, get a beastmaster (or high-priest with a high command level) and capture the beast. Be sure to "feed" it a few units before capture though, so you can get him mobility.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

My favorite is to use a strong recon unit (probably Beastmaster) with subdue beast and the Black Mirror. The illusionary version wouldn't be able to kill Acheron, but it would be immune to fear and could easily weaken the dragon a lot. Then the real unit could swoop in to capture him. (I believe that fear takes the units' relative strength remaining into account, so if an illusion knocked Acheron down to 10% then the real unit would have a good chance of overcoming fear even without courage.)


(Beastmasters no longer start with Subdue Beast, so you'd have to level the unit up for a while to get the promotion. Any recon unit can get the promo now.)


It can still be a good idea to throw some fodder at Acheron to let his gain xp just before you capture him, so you can purchase Mobility since Acheron is a 0 movement unit. This should be in the same turn as you capture him, so the computer doesn't purchase some less useful promotion instead.

 

[lordrune]

Woah - capturing the Dragon? That's a bit more ambitious than I was thinking I just wanted to get rid of the evil thing, get the XPs, and grab the treasure

Thanks for the tips, got a few good ideas to take into my next game Knowing that the stoneskin goes away when you hit it makes me a bit less fearful.

 

[BillSeurer]

It is easy to take out. Just sacrifice a bunch of units against it to weaken it and then kill it like any other unit. If you use units with withdraw for the weaken part most of them will even survive. Alternately use a bunch of summoners and summon a swarm of things to weaken it.

Be sure to do it all in one round, though, or you're just giving it experience to make itself tougher.

And, yes, once you have weakened it you can easily capture it with a unit with Subdue Beast. That takes a lot longer because you have to wait for those units to become available and then train one to actually have the Subdue ability.

 

[Caradoc]

Meanwhile, bear in mind that Acheron is not going anywhere. Just stay out of his range and he won't bother you.

 

[slowcar]

the AI does love to fight him though, up to the point where 3 AIs are not able to pursue any warring as their stacks stand around the dragon, adding experience to his hoard.

 

[Sarisin]

the AI does love to fight him though, up to the point where 3 AIs are not able to pursue any warring as their stacks stand around the dragon, adding experience to his hoard.

Fight him? How about just standing around and watching him?

I find in most my games, just as you say, a number of AI civs will send one or more stack to camp out around Acheron. However, because their units don't have Courage and are repelled by Acheron's Fear, they just don't do much of anything.

I love to send an HN Shadow to this gathering to pick off units one by one and build up the Shadow's XP.

I often wonder why Acheron doesn't (a) Fireball those standing around - never saw this or (b) Spawn barb units to go out after them. There are usually already a bunch in the city.

 

[Blackmantle]

The answer why he doesn't meteor the things around him is explained now via the summoning AI (bug-thread i believe or something similarly prominent.). Beware. Soon the AI will get a grip on spells. Don't say you haven't been warned.

About time...

(and sometimes the odd Barb unit inside does attack in my experience. It just needs enough things to build up there. And the odd casualty won't be easily spotted given the massive camps of Acheron-fans right next to his hoard... Must be Mithril there. ...)

 

[cIV_khanh93]

mithril? I think the "hoard" is a mines of gal-dur but with gems.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Hoard gives 1 gold, 1 gems, and the Enchanted Blade promotion. It used to 1 Mithril instead of the promotion, and lore entries do indicate that dragons really like collecting mithril. (They collected enough for the dwarves to be able to convince humans that mithril was actually dragon bone, so they could laugh at them foolishly going of to their deaths, or if they are lucky to slaying the beast that stole the mithril from the dwarves, who would then claim it back.) It was changed because once the Mithril Weapons promotion no longer required a specific building the barbs and whoever captured Acheron's city got a huge advantage in the early game.



(In my version, the Hoard is back to providing Mithril again, but the Mithrl Weapons promotion has a tech prereq. (My Mines of Galdur also provide 2 Iron, Gold, and Mithril instead of 3 iron.) Since Dragons in my version are Nukes and cannot be built until the Stir from Slumber ritual awakens them, I changed it so tat The Hoard spawns Acheron instead of the other way around. I forgot to make this wonder barbarian only, and don't think I will as letting players choose to let a barbarian dragon steal their city seem cool. I did of course remember to only make Acheron spawn this way once, not every time the equipment is dropped. Oh, Acheron has 3 movement too (and 36 strength, blitz, etc), but so long as he is in a city with his hoard he will have a promotion making him immobile. Stealing the hoard will make him wonder free until he can settle down with his riches again in a new city.)

 

[xienwolf]

Best Typo ever.


I believe you meant "he will have a promotion making him IMMOBILE" But I like the other approach too.

 

[avalonnn]

Outnumber units in the square! Acheron usually arrives in a port city, meaning bombardment is an option.

My fear, with the new defensives strikes, is that you'll see Acheron + 15 archers. That would be tough!

 

[Lycheepeel]

With Acheron held in place, is there any other way than stealing the wonder? Or after taming him he still has the held promotion. Perhaps there is a way to remove the held promotion or is there no method at all?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

patch I makes it so that after he is captured, Acheron loses the "held" promotion

unfortunately patch I is causing CTDs so you should wait till patch J