What do I need to do to graduate to monarch level?

[Ranger Steve]

I've been playing Civ 4 sporadically since its release and after laying off it for a while have recently started playing it again. I've made good use of a lot of the strategies in the War Academy and dominate every time on prince level.

The problem is: While I'm the Indianapolis Colts on prince level - I'm the Oakland Raiders of Monarch. I'm way behind on tech when the modern era rolls around and near the bottom of the score as well.

Do you guys have any suggestions for ways to get over the hump from prince to monarch?

Thanks -- Steve

 

[Atlas]

If you could post a save, I (and others) could take a look at it and give you exact advice on where you can improve.

 

[Cam_H]

This is probably the best approach.

Sometimes when looking at others' games the areas for improvement are just glaring empire management problems (e.g. fruitless builds, cities needlessly going into stagnation, etc.), while other times it's just strategic (e.g. fear of going to war). It's difficult to tell without seeing where the game's at.

 

[Ranger Steve]

Thanks for looking at this. Here's a recent game that I abandoned after realizing that my chances of ever catching Mansa Musa were pretty bleak. I was actually pretty happy with how this one had started out and don't quite know how I ever got so far behind the curve on it.

My initial strategy (since I was dealt Monty randomly) was to go militaristic and try to wipe out my neighbors en route to either a domination or conquest victory. I was thinking I was pretty competitive until I ran into Musa and realized he had an insurmountable lead.

Per my original post, my strategies have worked pretty well on Prince level but really seem to fall down at Monarch. If you can see any help for me, I'd appreciate it.

-- Steve

 

[svv]

I can't look at your saved game right now, but here are some things that helped me starting Monarch:

1. In your first games choose a militaristic civ. Even better than Monty would be the Romans.

2. Forget about founding your own religion. Instead, choose a religion based on what's most popular. Form good relationships with all your co-religionists, and use them as a source of tech trades, which you should actively seek (along with resource trades). Emphasize alphabet in your early research (after you get the basics like bronze working, and iron working if you're Rome).

3. After you get Alphabet get metal casting so you can build forges, which you should build (after you've built granaries) in all your cities. Try to get or trade for gold, silver and gems for a needed happiness boost. Then head for literature, music and liberalism to try to get those first. Then get whatever it is you need for the catapults.

4. Pick on everyone who's close and not your religion. Keep their cities if they're fairly close and in good locations, if your economy can handle it. Otherwise raze them. If one of your co-religionists asks you to go to war against a heathen, do it - even if it means only sending a unit or two.

5. Don't worry too much about wonders. Build great library if you can. Consider building some wonders you know you won't get so that you can get the money when somebody else gets them.

6. Use slavery for production. As often as you can as soon as the "cruel oppression" from the previous one goes away.

7. In the mid game, beeline for chemistry and steel, and build a combinded army of macemen, grenadiers, pikemen, and cannon. If you were Rome and still have a bunch of Praetorians, you can either upgrade some to Macemen or keep them around - they're still good for rooting out longbowmen. Send your slow-moving Stack of Doom after the biggest enemy. Religion will be less important now because most of your more-advanced AI opponents will be going to free religion, so you may wish to select one of your former allies as victim.

 

[cabert]

Upgrading praet to maces is wrong IMHO.
Most of your praets never face melee units anyway.
Better keep the gold for deficit research.

 

[Squad23]

The first thing i see when looking at your save game is that most of your land is undeveloped. Cities with size 4 that won't grow anymore. i guess that's one thing you have to focus on. Because if your land is developed you have more money (cottages) so faster teching. More hammers because of bigger cities. So more milatary and buildings. And more resources so more trading for other resources. What leeds to more happyness and health.
i guess that's a keyfactor for your game.

so build more workers (or steal them) and focus on resources first and then on what your city needs (for example commerce city > cottagesetc.)

 

[Ranger Steve]

I can't look at your saved game right now, but here are some things that helped me starting Monarch:

1. In your first games choose a militaristic civ. Even better than Monty would be the Romans.

2. Forget about founding your own religion. Instead, choose a religion based on what's most popular. Form good relationships with all your co-religionists, and use them as a source of tech trades, which you should actively seek (along with resource trades). Emphasize alphabet in your early research (after you get the basics like bronze working, and iron working if you're Rome).

3. After you get Alphabet get metal casting so you can build forges, which you should build (after you've built granaries) in all your cities. Try to get or trade for gold, silver and gems for a needed happiness boost. Then head for literature, music and liberalism to try to get those first. Then get whatever it is you need for the catapults.

4. Pick on everyone who's close and not your religion. Keep their cities if they're fairly close and in good locations, if your economy can handle it. Otherwise raze them. If one of your co-religionists asks you to go to war against a heathen, do it - even if it means only sending a unit or two.

5. Don't worry too much about wonders. Build great library if you can. Consider building some wonders you know you won't get so that you can get the money when somebody else gets them.

6. Use slavery for production. As often as you can as soon as the "cruel oppression" from the previous one goes away.

7. In the mid game, beeline for chemistry and steel, and build a combinded army of macemen, grenadiers, pikemen, and cannon. If you were Rome and still have a bunch of Praetorians, you can either upgrade some to Macemen or keep them around - they're still good for rooting out longbowmen. Send your slow-moving Stack of Doom after the biggest enemy. Religion will be less important now because most of your more-advanced AI opponents will be going to free religion, so you may wish to select one of your former allies as victim.

I'll start a new game and give your ideas a shot. I was doing some of the things you mention but not #6 or #7. I usually beeline for guilds because I like knights. I probably build too many wonders per #5. I've seen the threads on "wonder addiction" but it's a hard habit to break! I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you for your very thoughtful response.

Steve

 

[futurehermit]

Yes, develop your land. Start coastal with seafood? Research fishing and get at least one workboat out asap? Start with a farmable in your BFC? Research agriculture and get a farm on it. Herdable? Animal husbandry. Floodplains? Ag/wheel then pottery get cottages on those floodplains.

Same logic when you found your 2nd city. What is nearby? What techs will you need to improve those tiles asap? Start with resource tiles first then look for grasslands to get cottages down.

Key area of focus for lower-level players

Learn how to abuse bronze-working. It does 3 important things for you:

1) Pop-rushing. After adopting slavery, whenever you start to grow your city beyond the happiness limit (which you should try to do asap) whip away some population to rush something (settlers and workers are good candidates since when you build them your cities are not growing!!!). Learning to do this consistently (wait 10 turns for first unhappiness penalty to wear off before whipping again) will really improve your game.

2) Chop-rushing. When you are building something you want to hurry (settlers/workers/expensive buildings) bronzeworking allows you to chop forests for a quick production boost. You should do this. Combining chop and pop rushing will get your empire going much sooner!!!

3) Axe-rushing. Bronze reveals copper. If you see it nearby, settle it asap! Get it hooked up (wheel). Build barracks in your cities (build 2 so you have 3 total) and then build 6 total axes. Then find your closest neighbour (hopefully someone quite close) and attack a non-capital city. You might lose a couple axes, but if you can sack the city that's great. Don't forget to build reinforcements. Then go on and take a 2nd city. Then sue for peace (if you research alphabet asap then you can sue for tech when offering peace).

Once you've crippled your nearest neighbour then build up a bit while teching to construction and then go in and finish him/her off once you build some catapults (to tear down cultural defence of capital). Once this is done you should have a nice-sized empire with which you can repeat the procedure for your next target.

If you can abuse these three aspects of bronzeworking you should be playing on prince in no time!

 

[cabert]

^^he IS playing on prince
He wants to move up to monarch

As far as I remember, the difference between prince and monarch skills can be summed up in one word : focus.
You cannot beat the AIs in techs, wonders, religions, land at monarch level.
You must choose a path and do all it takes for it. (want to tech fast ? look for good commerce cities, put a few down, build slowly but improve land fast. You won't have the army you'd love this way, though.)
You can go cultural, you go for space, you can go for military, but you cannot "stay in the middle". If you do, you'll die.

 

[TM Moot]

As far as I remember, the difference between prince and monarch skills can be summed up in one word : focus.
You cannot beat the AIs in techs, wonders, religions, land at monarch level.
You must choose a path and do all it takes for it. (want to tech fast ? look for good commerce cities, put a few down, build slowly but improve land fast. You won't have the army you'd love this way, though.)
You can go cultural, you go for space, you can go for military, but you cannot "stay in the middle". If you do, you'll die.

You have hit the nail on the head....

This is why I fail to win on Monarch despite winning at Prince with similar tactics. Not enough streamlining. I try to cover (mostly) all bases (cultural, space race, diplomatic) and end up short in all of them.

 

[Ranger Steve]

^^he IS playing on prince
He wants to move up to monarch

As far as I remember, the difference between prince and monarch skills can be summed up in one word : focus.
You cannot beat the AIs in techs, wonders, religions, land at monarch level.
You must choose a path and do all it takes for it. (want to tech fast ? look for good commerce cities, put a few down, build slowly but improve land fast. You won't have the army you'd love this way, though.)
You can go cultural, you go for space, you can go for military, but you cannot "stay in the middle". If you do, you'll die.

So what I'm taking away from this is (for a militaristic victory):

Streamline and focus on what I want to be best at
develop my cities better
Build fewer wonders
possibly try some worker stealing
beeline for chemistry and steel in the mid-game

 

[cabert]

So what I'm taking away from this is (for a militaristic victory):

Streamline and focus on what I want to be best at
develop my cities better
Build fewer wonders
possibly try some worker stealing
beeline for chemistry and steel in the mid-game

should be ok

 

[Lidjis]

I had your same problem for a while, a prince player that couldn't beat monarch. What bumped me up into monarch and emperor were three things:
1. City specialization- Your cities shouldn't build everything. Designate cities as commerce, production, science, or great people cities. A city should generally only build buildings that fit with its specialization. You'll have some hybrids, especially in the commerce-science area, but generally when you found or capture a new city you should figure out its specialization and stick to it. This ties into...

2. Don't overbuild. Only build buildings and wonders that somehow further your strategy. This was made a harsh reality for me a few months ago when I realized that I was pouring hammers into the university of sankore but was running free religion! That is an extreme example, but think carefully about where your hammers go. If you have built all of the necessary building in a city (generally granaries, forges, and courthouses) and then built any buildings that meet the cities specialization, start producing military units. One thing you learn as you go up in difficulty is that you can't get enough military power. Which ties into....

3. War early and often. Find a military resource, and go claim one or two cities from your nearest rival. Finish him with catapults and swords. Hit your next rival with catapults, maces, elephants and trebs. Finish him with grenadiers. Attack the third guy with cavalry, cannons, and rifles. It is very hard to win Monarch and up unless you are good at timing wars. You should always be building military units. Your heroic epic production city should build virtually nothing else. Keeping a constant stream of units cranking out of your main cities will make it easier for you to want to declare war.

Finally, a few tricks that got me into emperor (if someday you aspire to that)
1. Heroic theatre- Find a city with grass and 3 food tiles? Drop the heroic epic and globe theatre here and whip until your hands bleed.
2. UU rush- Play as Persia, Inca, Egypt, or Aztec and focus on just building up an early game army of your UU. Carve yourself out some good land.
3. SE economy- Its tricky to use, but running an economy based on farms and specialists instead of cottages can be rewarding. Instead of a designated great people city, you now get a single cottaged city (your capital) and farm over everything else. Try to get pyramids and beeline biology.
4. Slingshots- Use liberalism, bulbing, and the oracle to figure out ways to get to effective techs quickly. Go for techs that you can trade to the AI. For example, lightbulbing philosophy with a great scientist can allow you to run a much lower tech rate for a long time while you keep up in tech by trading off philosophy. Gives you alot of extra gold to make war with.

 

[Ranger Steve]

I had your same problem for a while, a prince player that couldn't beat monarch. What bumped me up into monarch and emperor were three things:
1. City specialization- Your cities shouldn't build everything. Designate cities as commerce, production, science, or great people cities. A city should generally only build buildings that fit with its specialization. You'll have some hybrids, especially in the commerce-science area, but generally when you found or capture a new city you should figure out its specialization and stick to it. This ties into...

2. Don't overbuild. Only build buildings and wonders that somehow further your strategy. This was made a harsh reality for me a few months ago when I realized that I was pouring hammers into the university of sankore but was running free religion! That is an extreme example, but think carefully about where your hammers go. If you have built all of the necessary building in a city (generally granaries, forges, and courthouses) and then built any buildings that meet the cities specialization, start producing military units. One thing you learn as you go up in difficulty is that you can't get enough military power. Which ties into....

3. War early and often. Find a military resource, and go claim one or two cities from your nearest rival. Finish him with catapults and swords. Hit your next rival with catapults, maces, elephants and trebs. Finish him with grenadiers. Attack the third guy with cavalry, cannons, and rifles. It is very hard to win Monarch and up unless you are good at timing wars. You should always be building military units. Your heroic epic production city should build virtually nothing else. Keeping a constant stream of units cranking out of your main cities will make it easier for you to want to declare war.

Finally, a few tricks that got me into emperor (if someday you aspire to that)
1. Heroic theatre- Find a city with grass and 3 food tiles? Drop the heroic epic and globe theatre here and whip until your hands bleed.
2. UU rush- Play as Persia, Inca, Egypt, or Aztec and focus on just building up an early game army of your UU. Carve yourself out some good land.
3. SE economy- Its tricky to use, but running an economy based on farms and specialists instead of cottages can be rewarding. Instead of a designated great people city, you now get a single cottaged city (your capital) and farm over everything else. Try to get pyramids and beeline biology.
4. Slingshots- Use liberalism, bulbing, and the oracle to figure out ways to get to effective techs quickly. Go for techs that you can trade to the AI. For example, lightbulbing philosophy with a great scientist can allow you to run a much lower tech rate for a long time while you keep up in tech by trading off philosophy. Gives you alot of extra gold to make war with.

Just to close the loop on this - thank you everyone for your help. This is a great forum! I've been lurking here for years looking for strategy ideas but everyone's response to my original post have been really helpful.

I haven't won yet, but look to have my first monarch victory in the bag. I have a substantial point/and land lead and a slight tech lead going into the 1800's. I should be able to put the remaining civs away for a conquest.

Anyhow - for me I think the biggest problem was lack of specialization and building useless wonders per #2 above. Worker stealing helped a lot in the early game as well.

Thank you,

Steve