What do you build first?

[lilnev]

I generally think worker first is a poor choice. You spend X turns not growing, and all you get (after making a farm) is +1 food. The same amount of turns will grow to pop 2, which will give you minimum 2 food/hammers, probably more, and probably extra commerce to boot (which is even more important).

No, an extra pop working an unimproved tile will give you a maximum of 1 extra food/hammer. And without commerce, unless you've got flood plains (or multiple oases, or certain resources e.g. food by a river). Don't forget to subtract out the two food that the citizen working the new tile needs to eat. A grassland forest is only a net +1 hammer, for example.

Your best tiles will typically gain more from the appropriate improvement -- unirrigated Corn goes from +1 food to +3 food, for example, or plains Cows go from +1 hammer to +1 food +3 hammers. That's a huge boost, much more than you'd get from just growing onto another unimproved tile. Plus the worker can go on to improve multiple tiles.

peace,
lilnev

 

[jkp1187]

Worker then settler (chopping as appropriate) is my default, although I am not above building work boat where opportunities exist, or even a warrior or scout (esp. in crowded and/or Terra maps.) Of course, I rarely go for an early religion, except for those games where I want a cultural win.

 

[Wodan]

No, an extra pop working an unimproved tile will give you a maximum of 1 extra food/hammer. And without commerce, unless you've got flood plains (or multiple oases, or certain resources e.g. food by a river). Don't forget to subtract out the two food that the citizen working the new tile needs to eat. A grassland forest is only a net +1 hammer, for example.

I disagree. A fp or unimproved plantation (depending on type) will at least give +1 food and +1 commerce. (Over the 2 food the citizen eats.) Remmber, this is your capitol. The mapscript is biased to give you this kind of setup. We shouldn't compare to the simple case of a grassland forest, because that is not typical to your capitol.

What we're talking about is the 2nd best unimproved tile in your capitol. Again, this is guaranteed by the mapscript to be pretty darn good. (I'll grant that some mods may not abide by this guarantee.)

And, remember that a floodplain is guaranteed to be on a river (which is +1 commerce). Your calcs above omit this.

Your best tiles will typically gain more from the appropriate improvement -- unirrigated Corn goes from +1 food to +3 food, for example, or plains Cows go from +1 hammer to +1 food +3 hammers. That's a huge boost, much more than you'd get from just growing onto another unimproved tile.

Not fair to compare cows, because that requires AH, which is not a starting tech. In fact, it's a 2nd tier tech. You're not going to get this by the time you complete the worker, even if you are able to begin on it right away (you have the prereq tech as your freebie).

Comparing to corn is fair, because you could do it without any prereq. So, you would get +2 food. This is pretty much your optimal situation.

Thus, I'll grant that IF you start with Ag as your freebie tech, AND you have corn, then perhaps worker first is a good idea.

Plus the worker can go on to improve multiple tiles.

Not really. By the time you have completed the worker AND have grown to size 2, the alternative would be to grow to size 2 and complete the worker. This is pretty much a wash.

Wodan

 

[CivCorpse]

Comparing to corn is fair, because you could do it without any prereq. So, you would get +2 food. This is pretty much your optimal situation.

Thus, I'll grant that IF you start with Ag as your freebie tech, AND you have corn, then perhaps worker first is a good idea.




Wodan

You forgot the most inportant and rare tile...the grassland gems. Mining is a starting tech a lot of times and it is quick to research even if it isn't. 6 commerce in a size two city is huge in the early game. On marathon it takes 22 turns on average to reach size 2. And 30 turns to build a worker if you are nonexpansionist or built on a plains hill. Plus 15 turns to mine the grassland gems. Growing to size 2 first means 22 turns to grow, then about 24 turns to build the worker with the extra +1 food or + 1hammer. Then 15 turns to mine the gems. total of 61 turns to be able to work that tile. Worker first is 30 turns for worker then 15 turns to mine. That means you are working the gems in 35 turns. Plus you have the extra hammer from the mine. Basically you get 6 extra commerce for 26 turns. That is 156 beakers. Plus after building the mine your worker is improving another tile. so even if it is a farm which takes 18 turns to build, you have two improved tiles being worked after 53 turns. Granted grassland gems are rare but corn is not.

 

[Melchizedek]

It depends on my starting techs and surrounding terrain. I usually start working on a settler right away, but if I have two good food tiles nearby sometimes it's best to spend hammers on a warrior (or even a workboat) until the capitol grows to two pop. With the extra food, the settler is delayed little if at all.

The only time I build a worker before a settler is if I get bronze working soon and there are forests nearby to help chop a settler.

 

[JujuLautre]

CivCorpse > 30 + 15 make 45, not 35

 

[Bluetooth]

Why wouldn't you just build the work boat from the get-go, since population growth still occurs while building a work boat?

But, if I'm not building a work boat, I do the same thing, except I'll usually build a warrior instead of the barracks at first.

You’re right, and I do now and then, but usually I start with Barracks. Call it a bad habit.

 

[drhirsch]

I am missing a choice.

Stonehenge first is a viable option in some games.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Why would anyone build a monument first anyway, in the capital? Stonehenge maybe (but I'd rather build it in my second city really).

EDIT: I voted worker but I often build a warrior or work boat first.

 

[TM Moot]

I'm really glad im reading about this because i always built a settler first and thought it was sooooooooooo slow. There are so many better options that i never thought of that should work so much better than sitting around for 25-50 turns on a single unit.

Much better to build a worker and chop rush a settler, works out about the same duration (providing you've got BW).

I go - warrior/worker/warrior/settler/depends....

 

[CivCorpse]

CivCorpse > 30 + 15 make 45, not 35

During the time frame we were using as an example "mathematics" had not been researched? Unless you did it in the World Builder....prior to mathematics being discovered, 30 + 15 = 35.