oynaz
Prince
I have given settler first some thought. Is it worth it?
What do you normally build first?
- Thread starter torchic21594
- Start date
Indiansmoke
Deity
I don't think many people realize that warrior, grow to size 2 worker, slave worker and chop a second worker is alot of times better than worker first.
Conditions: you have to start with mining and havs a 3 food tile to work while building warrior.
Conditions: you have to start with mining and havs a 3 food tile to work while building warrior.
KingMorgan
Deity
I believe only if you IMP and working a 3+ hammer tile.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
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- Dec 5, 2005
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I like the idea, in theory. But under what circumstances would it be superior to the more conventional approach?
Taking a vanilla start to begin with, you need to produce 100
@ 4/turn. So there you are at turn 25 with an unimproved size 1 capital, a settler, and explorer unit (if it is still alive), and four or five techs.(a) how are you turning that into an advantage?
(b) how big an advantage is that going to be, vs train worker + chop settler, which is only a few turns behind you (but has a worker available already)
(c) what circumstances are going to increase that advantage?
Possible scenario: Isabella, on a Religious start. She doesn't have any worker techs to start with, and isn't going to have any soon, so worker first isn't clearly right. So maybe you train a settler who appears on turn 26... or do you instead train a warrior who appears on turn 10, and then a settler who appears on turn 30? Does four turns really trump an extra pop + a warrior?
Charlemagne on a religious start would be the poster boy for settler first.
Imperialist, so cheap settlers. And starts with mysticism and hunting, so lots of worker techs to go for. Especially if you either start on a plains hill or have a plains hill forest to work, it seems that going anything other than settler first would be stupid.
Although, the question is - do you go for an early religion, or just load up the worker techs you need (you won't get mining-BW in time unless if you get lucky and pop mining on turn 1 or 2).
Imperialist, so cheap settlers. And starts with mysticism and hunting, so lots of worker techs to go for. Especially if you either start on a plains hill or have a plains hill forest to work, it seems that going anything other than settler first would be stupid.
Although, the question is - do you go for an early religion, or just load up the worker techs you need (you won't get mining-BW in time unless if you get lucky and pop mining on turn 1 or 2).
MadmanAtW
Knight
My starts are usually:
(1) Have Mining already: Worker first off while learning Bronze Working. Chop a settler, preferably while actually working a warrior or work boat and switching to the settler when the tree hammers come in.
(2) Don't have Mining yet: Learn Mining first. Make a worker if there are any tiles that I can work with my starting techs (Rice/Corn/Wheat and I have Agriculture, or Deer/Elephants/whatever and I have Hunting), but more likely make a Warrior and grow to size 2, and start the worker such that he pops right around the turn where I learn Bronze Working. See above for popping out the first settler, though weaving the hammers with a warrior is less important if I already have one to escort the settler through the animals.
Main time I'll deviate are if I'm going for religion or I have a UU that requires Horse- in which case I want to know Animal Husbandry before I settle that first settlement anyway, so I might as well grow a bit first.
Get the capital up to about size 4, then churn out 2 more workers and then another settler. Somewhere in there we whip granaries in both cities.
I had always timed my worker to pop out so he can chop my settler, and I usually don't switch to Slavery until the settler's out because I don't tend to have necessarily grown yet (unless I'm spiritual). But this thread has be reconsidering my build order so I can get to size 2 before I start the settler and then whip the settler in addition to chopping it.
Edit: I usually play multiplayer, and one of our other players plays on Warlord, so the AIs tend to be around Noble or so. In single player games I've recently moved up to Monarch, so take the above with the appropriately sized grains of salt if contradicted by an Immortal player.
(1) Have Mining already: Worker first off while learning Bronze Working. Chop a settler, preferably while actually working a warrior or work boat and switching to the settler when the tree hammers come in.
(2) Don't have Mining yet: Learn Mining first. Make a worker if there are any tiles that I can work with my starting techs (Rice/Corn/Wheat and I have Agriculture, or Deer/Elephants/whatever and I have Hunting), but more likely make a Warrior and grow to size 2, and start the worker such that he pops right around the turn where I learn Bronze Working. See above for popping out the first settler, though weaving the hammers with a warrior is less important if I already have one to escort the settler through the animals.
Main time I'll deviate are if I'm going for religion or I have a UU that requires Horse- in which case I want to know Animal Husbandry before I settle that first settlement anyway, so I might as well grow a bit first.
Get the capital up to about size 4, then churn out 2 more workers and then another settler. Somewhere in there we whip granaries in both cities.
I had always timed my worker to pop out so he can chop my settler, and I usually don't switch to Slavery until the settler's out because I don't tend to have necessarily grown yet (unless I'm spiritual). But this thread has be reconsidering my build order so I can get to size 2 before I start the settler and then whip the settler in addition to chopping it.
Edit: I usually play multiplayer, and one of our other players plays on Warlord, so the AIs tend to be around Noble or so. In single player games I've recently moved up to Monarch, so take the above with the appropriately sized grains of salt if contradicted by an Immortal player.
Ian Kognitow
Deserter
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
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- 151
Most typically:
warrior, warrior, worker, worker, settler. Then, wonder, granary, or 2nd settler depending on conditions.
I prefer the additional scouting/huts/ready barb defense (also having got promotions from animals) allowed by the initial warriors. The gold and potential techs from more huts (most of my games--Prince and Monarch on Large Maps-- typically yield around 150-250 gold and 1 free tech) are normally more than worth the initial investment in the warriors rather than going with a worker straightaway (who will be further limited by the slower tech advancement.).
The capital also typically grows up to 3 by the time the warriors are done, which usually allows better tech advancement through commerce whilst the workers and settler are being built.
The second warrior has the further benefit of being able to stand ready to both escort and immediately garrison the first settler (while the first returns to protect the capital), allowing the *second* city the freedom to make its own worker straightaway.
warrior, warrior, worker, worker, settler. Then, wonder, granary, or 2nd settler depending on conditions.
I prefer the additional scouting/huts/ready barb defense (also having got promotions from animals) allowed by the initial warriors. The gold and potential techs from more huts (most of my games--Prince and Monarch on Large Maps-- typically yield around 150-250 gold and 1 free tech) are normally more than worth the initial investment in the warriors rather than going with a worker straightaway (who will be further limited by the slower tech advancement.).
The capital also typically grows up to 3 by the time the warriors are done, which usually allows better tech advancement through commerce whilst the workers and settler are being built.
The second warrior has the further benefit of being able to stand ready to both escort and immediately garrison the first settler (while the first returns to protect the capital), allowing the *second* city the freedom to make its own worker straightaway.
TabascoBob
Chieftain
I almost always build a warrior first, whether I start with a scout or a warrior, so I can fogbust around my capital as it grows and maybe pick up a Woodsman promotion or two before crawling back into town to "turn that frown upside down". Then it's either a worker or a workboat, as circumstances require. I am always tempted to grow "one more" especially if the next population point is 4 or fewer turns away, especially before BW. Outside the capital, cities 2-4 almost always get monument first, then I start to specialize (production/military, production/science, workers/settlers, resource grab/choke point). After the first worker, I usually build workers when I'm at the happy cap and try to manage city size with two pop whips.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
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- 3,663
I would guess that the "whip worker" technique would be more important in multiplayer than it is in solo play.
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