El Castellano
Warlord
They have shown the symbol of Spain, the bull:
The truth is that I did not expect it, what do you think about this?
The truth is that I did not expect it, what do you think about this?
What do you think about the icon of Spain?
- Thread starter El Castellano
- Start date
Scaramanga
Brickhead
Well, if you are a different religion than Phillip you are definitely waving a red cape in front of him.
Stilgar08
Emperor
I take what they throw at me when it comes to symbols/icons... So the bull is fine I guess.
Being German I'm sort of fed up with the iron cross now - Feels like it's there for a thousand years...
Being German I'm sort of fed up with the iron cross now - Feels like it's there for a thousand years...
j51
Blue Star Cadet
Seems weird. It's just a modern sporting symbol, no? Kinda like giving France a rooster. I've always wanted to see the Burgundian saltire for Spain, especially now that we have a Hapsburg leader.
El Castellano
Warlord
shyPiano
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2015
- Messages
- 306
I can see where they are coming from - Bullfighting is a very traditional Spanish sport (let's call it a sport), though it shares this tradition with other countries, most notably Portugal.
But given the colors, this would have made much more sense:
You could simplify it as such:
It would also be much less controversial, since, obviously, many are against hurting animals for sport.
But given the colors, this would have made much more sense:
You could simplify it as such:
It would also be much less controversial, since, obviously, many are against hurting animals for sport.
El Castellano
Warlord
I can see where they are coming from - Bullfighting is a very traditional Spanish sport (let's call it a sport), though it shares this tradition with other countries, most notably Portugal.
But given the colors, this would have made much more sense:
You could simplify it as such:
It would also be much less controversial, since, obviously, many are against hurting animals for sport.
I think it comes from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_bull
Josephias
Emperor
- Joined
- May 8, 2007
- Messages
- 1,466
Symbols for Spain have been always tricky. Coat of arms is not a simple one that allows for a easy selection.
Altough Pillars of Hercules (probably including motto ribbon) could indeed work, being the most distinguishing feature of current Spain's coat (in conparison with other countries coat), they are used only as supporters and maybe not recognized as a part of it. In other hand, they probably represent greatly spain's history, so they won't be such a bad symbol.
Spain has used during history other quite nice and recognizable symbols (mainly burgundy cross, Ysabel-Fernando Yoke and Arrows, and st.johns Eagle (single headed Eagle with halo). However, these -specially the last two- are still charged with too much political significance due to its use in the last century.
Indeed, as for cross of burgundy, the political significance is fading away, and could start being reused as simbol. And it would have been a quite nice option with Phil being the leader. I gess they opted out of it as the standard depiction is red salitre on background, and due to the color selection for the civ, the backgrond was already red. However, some wise design trick could have worked (make the symbol a yellow square, with a barbed salitre cutted inside, then you would have the salitre flag in red backround).
Historical options discarded, we go to more "pop" signs, and the bull is the first selection on the list. Not so "modern" (besides bullfighting, some bull myths have been associated with spain from antiquity - as well as with other mediterranean cultures). It is recognizable, and of course, better that placing there a paella or a glass of sangría. Nevertheless it feels an oversimplification of the country image (it can be matched to placing a baggete for the french symbol, or some cowboy garb for américa, or a petrol tower for arabia...) too easy and reduced, and sligthly unaccurate. Probably a good matter to discuss.
Finally, I've to say consider using a bull could even be fine (nevertheless its easy association with bullfighting, with has some polemic, it is still a common reference used widely in Spain). However, I don't think the depiction they chose (head, front), is the one that would have been used in spain. Too much ranch-like for my tastes. I would say a bull portrait representing spain would rather use the full bull body, or -if using only the head-, make it looking to the side, full or partly, but not front.
Altough Pillars of Hercules (probably including motto ribbon) could indeed work, being the most distinguishing feature of current Spain's coat (in conparison with other countries coat), they are used only as supporters and maybe not recognized as a part of it. In other hand, they probably represent greatly spain's history, so they won't be such a bad symbol.
Spain has used during history other quite nice and recognizable symbols (mainly burgundy cross, Ysabel-Fernando Yoke and Arrows, and st.johns Eagle (single headed Eagle with halo). However, these -specially the last two- are still charged with too much political significance due to its use in the last century.
Indeed, as for cross of burgundy, the political significance is fading away, and could start being reused as simbol. And it would have been a quite nice option with Phil being the leader. I gess they opted out of it as the standard depiction is red salitre on background, and due to the color selection for the civ, the backgrond was already red. However, some wise design trick could have worked (make the symbol a yellow square, with a barbed salitre cutted inside, then you would have the salitre flag in red backround).
Historical options discarded, we go to more "pop" signs, and the bull is the first selection on the list. Not so "modern" (besides bullfighting, some bull myths have been associated with spain from antiquity - as well as with other mediterranean cultures). It is recognizable, and of course, better that placing there a paella or a glass of sangría. Nevertheless it feels an oversimplification of the country image (it can be matched to placing a baggete for the french symbol, or some cowboy garb for américa, or a petrol tower for arabia...) too easy and reduced, and sligthly unaccurate. Probably a good matter to discuss.
Finally, I've to say consider using a bull could even be fine (nevertheless its easy association with bullfighting, with has some polemic, it is still a common reference used widely in Spain). However, I don't think the depiction they chose (head, front), is the one that would have been used in spain. Too much ranch-like for my tastes. I would say a bull portrait representing spain would rather use the full bull body, or -if using only the head-, make it looking to the side, full or partly, but not front.
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
idk, bulls are pretty much etched in my collective memory w/r/t Spain, so I think it's a good icon for them 
I prefer it to England's crown, tbh.
I prefer it to England's crown, tbh.
Atlas627
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2011
- Messages
- 3,121
But given the colors, this would have made much more sense:
You could simplify it as such:
I could easily associate the Bull with Spain, so I don't mind it being the logo in this game. However, I associate this castle with Spain even more. You're done a pretty good job of making it look simplistic, so I'd much prefer something like that.
It's a bunch of bull. They are blatantly steering Spain in the wrong direction. I'd say Spain aficionados have a legitimate beef with the designers. 
killmeplease
Mk Z on Steam
i havent seen the America's logo yet, is it something like this?
Aristos
Lightseeker
idk, bulls are pretty much etched in my collective memory w/r/t Spain, so I think it's a good icon for them
So, with that logic, the American symbol should be... an egg? Nahhh.
I agree with my companhero espanhol here, symbols should at least try to represent a part of the history of each civilization and to have historical meaning. I guess that is too much to ask from a game that needs to appeal to casuals?
anandus
Errorist
To be honest, I don't mind the icon. It's something you immediately recognize as Spain.
And offtopic:
I hope one of the expansions brings back corporations.
A bison actually comes to mind. Or a gun (a revolver).i havent seen the America's logo yet, is it something like this?
And offtopic:
I hope one of the expansions brings back corporations.
Aristos
Lightseeker
Exactly.
malekithau
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
- Messages
- 57
Bull worship has a long history in Spain which only intensified when the worship of Mithras was spread by the Roman legio. It is a much more ancient symbol of Spain then the coats of arms etc
stealth_nsk
Deity
Bull worship was common through the whole Mediterranean. Spain bull cults are probably just Celtic influence. Still, they existed and Mithraic worship was strong in Spain, so that's valid point.
anandus
Errorist
Indeed, bulls are associated with pre-Roman Celtiberian culture, eg: Bulls of Guisando
BornInTheLoo
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2009
- Messages
- 199
In its current form, I would relate it more to Minoan Crete than to Spain (apart from the colours). Even if ancient bull worship existed on the Iberain peninsula, it's not much of a connection to the Spain represented in this Civ, for which the Burgundy cross would be perfect.
I would argue against the triple-towered castle mentioned by some on this thread, as this only represents Castilla and not the other parts of Spain.
It's a shame the Águila de San Juan (eagle) brings so much baggage from the Franco Era.
In short: not a real fan, but can't think any better bar the burgundian cross.
I would argue against the triple-towered castle mentioned by some on this thread, as this only represents Castilla and not the other parts of Spain.
It's a shame the Águila de San Juan (eagle) brings so much baggage from the Franco Era.
In short: not a real fan, but can't think any better bar the burgundian cross.
