well then where are they? lets see this flag.
also, the resident of saint loius do NOT consider themselves French
nor the descendence of the if the guys on the mayflower englishmen- yes we are descended from them, but they are not english
What ever happen to the Assyrians?
- Thread starter JJMikhail
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well then where are they? lets see this flag.
also, the resident of saint loius do NOT consider themselves French
nor the descendence of the if the guys on the mayflower englishmen- yes we are descended from them, but they are not english
Emperor Xerxes
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http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/services/churchiniraq/nationalism.shtml
http://aim.atour.com/
Basically there is clearly an Assyrian nationalist movement. Whether these people have anything to do with the original Assyrian empire is questionable but to ignore them in post-war Iraq could have successionist consequences.
As for having it as a Civ in Conquests it would have been very hard with both Sumer and Babylon hogging names. What would the UU be? The only way they could get around it is if they used some of the same names as Babylon but instead of saying Ashur they said Ashúr or something. So there would be two Ashurs but they would both also appear as differant because the have altered grammer bits.
In any case Assyria was clearly never considered by Atari in any real way, what with their exclusion even from the Mesopotamian scenerio. Assyrian nationalists will have to be content with Babylon representing them, besides both were most likely ethnically the same, and certainly the culture was almost identical.
http://aim.atour.com/
Basically there is clearly an Assyrian nationalist movement. Whether these people have anything to do with the original Assyrian empire is questionable but to ignore them in post-war Iraq could have successionist consequences.
As for having it as a Civ in Conquests it would have been very hard with both Sumer and Babylon hogging names. What would the UU be? The only way they could get around it is if they used some of the same names as Babylon but instead of saying Ashur they said Ashúr or something. So there would be two Ashurs but they would both also appear as differant because the have altered grammer bits.
In any case Assyria was clearly never considered by Atari in any real way, what with their exclusion even from the Mesopotamian scenerio. Assyrian nationalists will have to be content with Babylon representing them, besides both were most likely ethnically the same, and certainly the culture was almost identical.
Attachments
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
Actually, the way the game engine works, it's no problem having the same city name on two city lists. If say, both Assyria and Babylonia had a city called "Ashur", the city first to reach that point in its city list would get it, and it would be skipped for the other civ one they get there.
Or, to needlessly simplify things, you could just wipe out the Assyrian city-names from the Babylonian list.
Or, to needlessly simplify things, you could just wipe out the Assyrian city-names from the Babylonian list.
neat!
now I know that Romans arnt the only people looking for a fresh start on the world
anyway, as far as UU'S, there is a HUGE vareity of choices- essentially, it narrows down to three-
A)seige archer (archer, and mantlet bearer)- replaces Archer OR spearman OR catapult
well, this could certainlly be a distinct unit- with the same skills that they were able to make the conquitador, and dog "double" unit, they could make the two man seige arcer team- I thinks its onvious that these guys get a defence bonus, mabey even hp as well, but one of the real goodies about this unit is the fact that it gets a bomabrdment- as much as the catapult, since these guys were, after all, used for conducting seiges...
B)4 horse chariot- replaces- horseman
as the 4 horse chariot came into use rather late in Assyrian development, and coexisted with cavalry, this unit woul dreplace horsemen- and has the oppertuinity to be VERY unique-
perhaps with an increased attack, that would justy be the beginning, for a special little unit ability would be if it could transport a single foot unit, and mabey even have 3 moves- it has the oppertunity to be a very strong, very interesting unit- the down back it would be hugelly expensive, and would still have the smae traval limitations as a stadard chariot
C)cavalry archer-replaces horseman
these guys, but on a horse
the Assyrians, one of the first devopler sof cavalry as a cheper alternative to chariots, made good use of them, but unfortunatelly, they came at a very late end in the Assyrian period, and really have nothing that would distinguish them from other horsemen, ytou coud try giving him a bomabrd for defence, but other then that, he is probabley the poorest of the chopices creativity wise
my own opinion sway to the seige archer, or the 4 horse chariot
now I know that Romans arnt the only people looking for a fresh start on the world
anyway, as far as UU'S, there is a HUGE vareity of choices- essentially, it narrows down to three-
A)seige archer (archer, and mantlet bearer)- replaces Archer OR spearman OR catapult
well, this could certainlly be a distinct unit- with the same skills that they were able to make the conquitador, and dog "double" unit, they could make the two man seige arcer team- I thinks its onvious that these guys get a defence bonus, mabey even hp as well, but one of the real goodies about this unit is the fact that it gets a bomabrdment- as much as the catapult, since these guys were, after all, used for conducting seiges...
B)4 horse chariot- replaces- horseman
as the 4 horse chariot came into use rather late in Assyrian development, and coexisted with cavalry, this unit woul dreplace horsemen- and has the oppertuinity to be VERY unique-
perhaps with an increased attack, that would justy be the beginning, for a special little unit ability would be if it could transport a single foot unit, and mabey even have 3 moves- it has the oppertunity to be a very strong, very interesting unit- the down back it would be hugelly expensive, and would still have the smae traval limitations as a stadard chariot
C)cavalry archer-replaces horseman
these guys, but on a horse
the Assyrians, one of the first devopler sof cavalry as a cheper alternative to chariots, made good use of them, but unfortunatelly, they came at a very late end in the Assyrian period, and really have nothing that would distinguish them from other horsemen, ytou coud try giving him a bomabrd for defence, but other then that, he is probabley the poorest of the chopices creativity wise
my own opinion sway to the seige archer, or the 4 horse chariot
HannibalBarka
We are Free
Originally posted by Xen
well then where are they? lets see this flag.
also, the resident of saint loius do NOT consider themselves French
I was not talking about Saint Louis the city but Saint Louis the guy who was King of France in the Xth century.
Emperor Xerxes
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Xen, that siege archer would make a good unit. It could be an archer that has added defense. This may make it too powerful but it would be pretty unique. That said it would be pretty close to the Hittite chariot unless they had your bombard idea. In fact maybe I am going a little too far but it could be a catapult replacement that has an attack, after all the Assyrians were masters of seige warfare.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I've said many times that I wish Assyria was in the game. I thought they were a great candidate, but they were ignored.
There's nothing that can be done, except make a mod that includes them or hope a new XP adds them. As for a mod, I've taken baby steps in that direction, but that's it. I've added a city list, and have an idea for a unique unit and a leader.
I was planning on a Horse Archer, making it 2.1.3. I think there are many points that it should not be their uu (Mounted Archers are certainly not unique to Assyria, and were common throughout the Middle East). I don't think the 4 Horse Heavy Chariot is a good unique unit, as they were probably more of a status symbol than an effective weapon (The effective Chariot would have been the earlier 2 Horse Chariot). I think the Siege Archer idea is interesting. Stats would be a question, because there is a fine line between a good uu and an overbalanced uu. On the other end, there is the possibilty than it isn't good enough.
I saw a great pick of an Assyrian Horse Archer, so you won't have to use your imagination, btw
There's nothing that can be done, except make a mod that includes them or hope a new XP adds them. As for a mod, I've taken baby steps in that direction, but that's it. I've added a city list, and have an idea for a unique unit and a leader.
I was planning on a Horse Archer, making it 2.1.3. I think there are many points that it should not be their uu (Mounted Archers are certainly not unique to Assyria, and were common throughout the Middle East). I don't think the 4 Horse Heavy Chariot is a good unique unit, as they were probably more of a status symbol than an effective weapon (The effective Chariot would have been the earlier 2 Horse Chariot). I think the Siege Archer idea is interesting. Stats would be a question, because there is a fine line between a good uu and an overbalanced uu. On the other end, there is the possibilty than it isn't good enough.
I saw a great pick of an Assyrian Horse Archer, so you won't have to use your imagination, btw
Emperor Xerxes
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If you can't make leaderheads you could always use a static Assyrian flag like the ones they use in the Napoleonic scenerio I suppose.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I'm sure if I bug people enough, some one will make it for me 
I am quite disappointed with some of the responses.
First and foremost, especially those who dont no anything about the Middle-East (probably the majority), the Assyrians have survived for over 4,000 years, may not be the same people, of course bloody not, look at Germany, once a Nazi empire, now it has 2% of its population is Turks.
Unfortunately, for those who do not anything about recognition in the Middle-East, we, Assyrians are recognised as Arabs, and we are not!
Assyrians were the earliest Christians (the first few ones to convert) and that is purely a fact. My dad's side of the family is Chaldean, my Grandfather (the father of my dad) is Russian.
The Assyrians were one of the only minorities to side with the Allies during World War II, fighting in Russia, West Europe and the Middle East itself.
Its a real shame that what I started seem to turn into Historical debates and politics, frankly, millions recognise the Assyrians as Arabs when quite clearly we are Assyrian Christians.
First and foremost, especially those who dont no anything about the Middle-East (probably the majority), the Assyrians have survived for over 4,000 years, may not be the same people, of course bloody not, look at Germany, once a Nazi empire, now it has 2% of its population is Turks.
Unfortunately, for those who do not anything about recognition in the Middle-East, we, Assyrians are recognised as Arabs, and we are not!
Assyrians were the earliest Christians (the first few ones to convert) and that is purely a fact. My dad's side of the family is Chaldean, my Grandfather (the father of my dad) is Russian.
The Assyrians were one of the only minorities to side with the Allies during World War II, fighting in Russia, West Europe and the Middle East itself.
Its a real shame that what I started seem to turn into Historical debates and politics, frankly, millions recognise the Assyrians as Arabs when quite clearly we are Assyrian Christians.
Emperor Xerxes
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The Assyrians were promised their own state apparantly after World War One. Of course they didn't get one and were lumped with Iraq.
Anywho, does anyone know how to make static leaderheads for Conquests? I'll check the creation forum but I think the file type for Flics are differant in Conquests. My computer doesn't even let me access them.
Anywho, does anyone know how to make static leaderheads for Conquests? I'll check the creation forum but I think the file type for Flics are differant in Conquests. My computer doesn't even let me access them.
conquestor
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I guess by now it is clear to everyone that Syrians (inhabitants of the Arabic country west Iraq) and Assyrians are distinct.
However JJMikhails's explanation of their distinctiveness was a bit odd for me:
"completly different to each other, one being Christian and one being Muslim."
Can't an Arab from Syria be Christian? (there are Christian Arabs around the world, mostly in Lebanon) or cant an Assyrian convert to Islam?
This is a very common mistake: Religion does not define nationality or ethnicity. Today Christian minorities living in other parts of the world emphasize their religion to get sympathy and possibly aid from European nations and US.
About ethnic groups changing over time, I agree w/ most of the posters here, they do change a lot!
It is a widely accepted fact that today's Egyptians have little to do w/ the ancient Egyptians.
However there are cases that are not as accepted/known as this one. Today's Greeks are not the same people who ruled the city states like Athens, Turks in Turkey does not show much similarity to their cousins who are still living in their ancient home (central Asia), Persians, although their language is distinctively Indo-European and Iran was supposed to mean Arian, don't like anything like the Swedish or German!
Ok, back to Assyrians: I had a roommate who was Assyrian and he told me they used to call themselves Suryani or Surrian (Orthodox Christians), the Catholics called themselves Keldani or Chaldean. However recently partly because of not wanting to be confused w/ Syrians (Surrian sounds more like Syrian than Assyrian) and partly to strengthen their claim to some land in Mesopotamia, their religious and community leaders made the decision to use the word Assyrian. As far as I know they have nothing to do w/ the ancient Assyrian Empire, just picked up the name to help their cause. A nation who is being assimilated needs roots to hang on to prevent dying, such as heritage of a glorious empire, or some kind of a cause that would keep all of them united (keep an eye out for the news of Assyrian nationalist movements in the western and northern Europe that try to get attention by making false claims of genocide against them) I also learned that they are in fact the earliest Christians and today their language is the closest thing that is close to what Jesus spoke (ancient Aramaic)
They were not promised an independent state in World War I (they are too few in number) however Kurds was promised one. The lands that used to be Ottoman Empire before the war now has approximately 30 different countries on it. Recent developments in Iraq may add one or two to that list. And by the way the strategy of emphasizing their religion is greatly helping them as they got US to give them equal or more representation in the Iraqi governing council than other ethnic groups who are much larger in number than them.
However JJMikhails's explanation of their distinctiveness was a bit odd for me:
"completly different to each other, one being Christian and one being Muslim."
Can't an Arab from Syria be Christian? (there are Christian Arabs around the world, mostly in Lebanon) or cant an Assyrian convert to Islam?
This is a very common mistake: Religion does not define nationality or ethnicity. Today Christian minorities living in other parts of the world emphasize their religion to get sympathy and possibly aid from European nations and US.
About ethnic groups changing over time, I agree w/ most of the posters here, they do change a lot!
It is a widely accepted fact that today's Egyptians have little to do w/ the ancient Egyptians.
However there are cases that are not as accepted/known as this one. Today's Greeks are not the same people who ruled the city states like Athens, Turks in Turkey does not show much similarity to their cousins who are still living in their ancient home (central Asia), Persians, although their language is distinctively Indo-European and Iran was supposed to mean Arian, don't like anything like the Swedish or German!
Ok, back to Assyrians: I had a roommate who was Assyrian and he told me they used to call themselves Suryani or Surrian (Orthodox Christians), the Catholics called themselves Keldani or Chaldean. However recently partly because of not wanting to be confused w/ Syrians (Surrian sounds more like Syrian than Assyrian) and partly to strengthen their claim to some land in Mesopotamia, their religious and community leaders made the decision to use the word Assyrian. As far as I know they have nothing to do w/ the ancient Assyrian Empire, just picked up the name to help their cause. A nation who is being assimilated needs roots to hang on to prevent dying, such as heritage of a glorious empire, or some kind of a cause that would keep all of them united (keep an eye out for the news of Assyrian nationalist movements in the western and northern Europe that try to get attention by making false claims of genocide against them) I also learned that they are in fact the earliest Christians and today their language is the closest thing that is close to what Jesus spoke (ancient Aramaic)
They were not promised an independent state in World War I (they are too few in number) however Kurds was promised one. The lands that used to be Ottoman Empire before the war now has approximately 30 different countries on it. Recent developments in Iraq may add one or two to that list. And by the way the strategy of emphasizing their religion is greatly helping them as they got US to give them equal or more representation in the Iraqi governing council than other ethnic groups who are much larger in number than them.
JazzToucan
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I'd love for the folks at Firaxis/Breakaway to program more civs and make them available for download. While there are many fine modders on this board, nobody has the time, resources, and manpower that a software company does.
Of course, all of this might be a moot point when Civ 4 comes out -- perhaps the Assyrians will make an appearance.
Of course, all of this might be a moot point when Civ 4 comes out -- perhaps the Assyrians will make an appearance.
An Assyrian would only convert to Islam if they were forced to, other than that, they are Christians, whether Orthodox or Catholic, theyre still Christian. And about Arab Christians, we are not Arab in the eyes of the world but the eyes of Islam.
And talking about Genocide, those damm Turks are the ones who slaughtered Christians back in WWI, which included Armenians and Assyrians, so, any false claims of genocide against them? dont think so somehow.
Back then, every state and every empire wanted to big because they wanted to be the biggest and strongest armies, especially that the fact we existed before Jesus Christ was born and did the Assyrians try to fight and regain their land in the past? no, they have simply been persecuted not because of their ethnicity but because of their religion, lets make these things clear right now.
And talking about Genocide, those damm Turks are the ones who slaughtered Christians back in WWI, which included Armenians and Assyrians, so, any false claims of genocide against them? dont think so somehow.
Back then, every state and every empire wanted to big because they wanted to be the biggest and strongest armies, especially that the fact we existed before Jesus Christ was born and did the Assyrians try to fight and regain their land in the past? no, they have simply been persecuted not because of their ethnicity but because of their religion, lets make these things clear right now.
I have always wondered why they've never been included as anything else than simple barbarians. It's strange when playing the Babylonians or the Sumerians and beig attacked by a puny Assyrian tribe. They were extremly warfarelike and are almost worshipped still in Iraq.
War Chariots and Militaristic should be their like.
War Chariots and Militaristic should be their like.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Anyway, here's a pick of Assyrian Horse Archers that doesn't require any imagination (just enough sense to look at the one with the bow).
Its a big pick, so I'll only link it.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/883-859_Cavalry_1.jpg
Its a big pick, so I'll only link it.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/883-859_Cavalry_1.jpg
Emperor Xerxes
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I very much doubt it. They revere their history and glorify their pagan past but the vast majority now are commited Christians.
Xen...are you planning on ressurecting the Imperial Assyrian empire and worshiping Marduk or Ashur!!??? I have my eye on you.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
I'd agree. I thought about 2.2.1 6.1.1 30 shields, but I'm bad at judging how powerful it is. I tested it out on the AI, and it didn't appear to be game breaking (I really didn't use the attack or Defense much and it became an earlier same-price Trebuchet). I tried to play against the Assyrians, but the AI didn't use them effectively at all (pre-C3C). I think they built one, and kept it parked in a city.
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