What Fantasy/Scifi alternatives would you want in Civ?

[bbbt]

Secret Societies has me thinking. Existing fantasy/scifi 4x are primarily hard fantasy (i.e. DnD/Tolkein esque) or alien world/space exploration scifi.

In their scenarios/game modes, Civ is touching on more of the less well represented sci/fantasy subgenres in gaming. 'Our world with fantastical elements' so to speak. Vampires, Cthulu, post-apocalyptic, Steampunk (Civ 5 Empires of the Smoky skies scenario).

I doubt there's a market for full versions of a 4x of these, but it does seem like the game modes could be expanded as more significant game modes to purchase or stand alone $30 spinoff styles. I'm curious what people are mostly interested in. My categorizations are pretty vague, let me know what I forgot.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Well we already have some cyberpunk elements with GS, post apocalyptic with Red Death, and now supernatural with RNF. I'm actually fine with just a little dash of it here and there and nothing full-blown.

Not sure if I could stomach steampunk, or as I call it "laxpunk" since it seems to encompass more and more things which weren't actually in the steam-powered era.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Definitely a fan of a mythological spinoff game.
You could still have the historical aspects of a civ like Greek Hoplites or Egypt War Chariots fighting alongside Minotaurs and Anubis .

 

[AntSou]

I'm mostly fine with sci-fi stuff added to the Atomic - Future Era.

I also like the idea of fantasy technological/engineering feats which were not achieved in real history but are believable enough/could have happened in an alternate history. E.g. Zeppelin's actually being a thing, Super Tanks, etc.

This could be a mobile Wonder, for instance. Only one available per game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte#/media/File:P1000_ratte_scale_model.png

That kind of fantasy.

 

[Zaarin]

If there's something Beyond Earth taught me it's that I don't trust Firaxis to make their own setting. I'd be on board with a mythology spinoff, though.

 

[Vrenir]

I'd really like to see Secret Societies develop into a more comprehensive fantasy element that shapes the larger game when the mode is active.

For example, the Hermetic Order Alchemist building could be used to unlock Steampunk type units in the Industrial era (think Empire of the Smokey Skies redux), and maybe advanced sci-fi units in the end-game. Maybe the GDR could be removed from the normal tech tree and added as the final unlock for the Hermetic Order. Maybe for more peaceful players, the Hermetic Order could provide some type of new energy source in the Modern era. The Alchemy labs could routinely generate great benefits and other random times create strange disasters. Membership would basically transform a civ into a sponsor of mad scientists, both for better and for worse.

The Voidsingers have the potential to be really interesting. In the Ancient and Classical eras, they could be used to build Soothsayers (again folding that fantasy element into this module). If the Voidsingers are active in a game, mysterious artifacts could appear throughout the world, maybe in the Renaissance. These artifacts could either be used by a non-society player as museum pieces, or by a Voidsinger civ as a way to power their special monuments. When a monument is fully themed, maybe it could be used to release a special Old One unit (perhaps using alien assets from Beyond Earth). Their end-game could be the releasing of something truly massive, or the releasing of some major environmental transformation like the Red Death effect. There could be pressure for non-society players to eradicate the ones who follow the Voidsingers to prevent this apocalypse.

I'm not sure that Minerva needs to be so fantastic, but it could be interesting if they unlocked a series of unique and powerful covert operations. Maybe being a member would compel you on occasion to do certain things (declare war against or sabotage another civ or ensure that a certain vote succeeds at the World Council) in order to serve the society's global purpose and spread their influence; you would then be rewarded handsomely for completing these quests. It could be interesting if you gradually became a player whose goal was not your country's success; instead, your civ would become essentially a front for your true goals, and winning would lie in some type of end-game where the entire world order is overthrown. The challenge would, of course, be in pursuing that agenda without antagonizing the other civs to a point where they turn on you and your society.

I'm not sure what the goals could be for the Sanguine society; they kind of have a lot of uniqueness inherently, but I think it would be interesting if their presence in the game prompted non-Vampire civs to hunt them, maybe in some type of contest for Vampire kills. Maybe the society could also branch into employing a couple of other supernatural monster species, like werewolves or goblins. Maybe you would need to figure out how to find and enlist the forces of various monster/fantasy races native to different terrains. Each could bring unique abilities, improvements, etc.

 

[Sostratus]

Definitely a fan of a mythological spinoff game.
You could still have the historical aspects of a civ like Greek Hoplites or Egypt War Chariots fighting alongside Minotaurs and Anubis .

Stop reminding me of how amazing age of mythology was and how much i want to play it!

If there's something Beyond Earth taught me it's that I don't trust Firaxis to make their own setting. I'd be on board with a mythology spinoff, though.

I think Beyond Earth would work way better in civ6 than in civ5. A lot of the changes that BE brought, compounded with the things Civ6 invented, would pair perfectly - districts is just one example. If you gave me a couple days i could probably come up with a detailed outline of such a game. The key difference with the setting would just be telling the players the background to the factions instead of "muh enigmatic leader rose to power, so mysterious" 8 times. Some of the Rising Tide stuff got a bit out from under them, and the orbital layer never got the love it needed, but the parts are there for a great game.

I think a good run at Empires of the Smoky Skies: Redux would be phenomenal. I really loved their steampunk flavor and the way they had the victory setting - be at the top of a leaderboard for enough time - could be translated to era score and competitions.

I also really liked NextWar in civ4, and leaning into the future era would provide for a great scenario and game mode. Suppose the world hits maximum climate devastation and is wracked by storms - now add an era and a half of content the great powers of earth can use to survive and thrive. Also, I miss arcologies protecting my cities. Those were sweet.

 

[Zaarin]

I think Beyond Earth would work way better in civ6 than in civ5. A lot of the changes that BE brought, compounded with the things Civ6 invented, would pair perfectly - districts is just one example. If you gave me a couple days i could probably come up with a detailed outline of such a game. The key difference with the setting would just be telling the players the background to the factions instead of "muh enigmatic leader rose to power, so mysterious" 8 times. Some of the Rising Tide stuff got a bit out from under them, and the orbital layer never got the love it needed, but the parts are there for a great game.

The setting was too bland for me to feel invested in honestly.

 

[EgonSpengler]

The OP didn't include the one option I actually want: Ahistorical but based on history. "Alternate histories", but not completely fanciful - based on things that could have happened, or nearly did happen. Thinking about US history, the most obvious "what if?" is perhaps too fraught, but what about The Republic of Texas led by President Sam Houston as a new Civ? Quebec? Or Martin Luther King Jr as a national leader for the US? There could be turning points in science or religion that could have gone the other way, that aren't reflected in the game. Maybe a batch of "alternate history" Great People? Nicola Tesla? Is there enough known about the Hittites to make them a Civ? I only know of them as the losers of the Battle of Kadesh. I don't know enough about Chinese history to speculate on how China might be different if someone other than the Qin had emerged from the Warring States period, and I also don't know enough about the post-Colonial period in Africa. Patrice Lumumba is the only name I can come up with, off the top of my head (actually, I could only remember his last name, I had to Google him to get his first name).



EDIT: I had another thought. Is Zheng He in the game? He must be. Historically, Zheng He bought ivory and a giraffe from Swahili-speaking people. iirc, he had proposed a voyage all the way around Africa and possibly across the Atlantic Ocean, before internal politics resulted in his fleet being recalled and dismantled. I don't think he ever made it around the horn of Africa, but he probably would've if he'd been allowed to. The Chinese might have beaten Magellan around the world by a hundred years. It's easy to imagine an 'alternate history' China that is the world's first global maritime power, with trade routes to the pre-Colombian American civilizations, West Africa, and Late Middle Ages Europe.

 

[Zaarin]

Is there enough known about the Hittites to make them a Civ?

Yes. Easily.

I only know of them as the losers of the Battle of Kadesh.

Egypt embellished their account of the battle, as they were wont to do; based on Hittite and Assyrian records the Battle of Kadesh was a draw.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Yes. Easily.


Egypt embellished their account of the battle, as they were wont to do; based on Hittite and Assyrian records the Battle of Kadesh was a draw.

Okay, so they don't qualify as "alternate history" or a speculative "what if?", they'd just be on the list of historical civs that aren't in the game yet.

---

Thinking back on US history some more, I was thinking about figures who could have been President, or who ran but lost a close election. There's the famous "Dewey Beats Truman" newspaper headline, because Dewey was considered such a heavy favorite, but I couldn't tell you one thing about Thomas Dewey. I see that someone named Samuel Tilden won 50.9% of the popular vote and 49.9% of Electoral College in 1876, losing the election to Rutherford B. Hayes. He must have been an important figure at the time, but I've never even heard of him before. More famously, Al Gore and Hilary Clinton both won the popular vote but lost the EC, but I'm dubious about bringing modern politics into Civ VI.

 

[fredrikslicer]

The setting was too bland for me to feel invested in honestly.

What if they made an adaptation of a setting? Warhammer, Dune, LotR etc...

 

[Zaarin]

Okay, so they don't qualify as "alternate history" or a speculative "what if?", they'd just be on the list of historical civs that aren't in the game yet.

Yeah, the Hittites--or Nesili, as they called themselves--were a major power of the region, definitely not alternate history material. For a brief period after the Late Bronze Age Collapse, they were the power of the region before Assyria rebounded.

What if they made an adaptation of a setting? Warhammer, Dune, LotR etc...

Licensed games have a tendency to be really tame because the publishers want to make up for the cost of the license. In particular I wouldn't touch a LotR licensed game because I'm a Tolkien fanatic and I won't touch it if it's not perfect. Warhammer and Dune don't interest me. Now if Amplitude were to get a hold of the Star Trek or Mass Effect license, that might catch my attention...(Not Firaxis, though. I don't play Civ because it's the best 4X game; I play it because I like it's specific flavor. If Firaxis made a non-historical 4X game, I'd probably look elsewhere.)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Okay, so they don't qualify as "alternate history" or a speculative "what if?", they'd just be on the list of historical civs that aren't in the game yet.

They were in Civ 3.

What if they made an adaptation of a setting? Warhammer, Dune, LotR etc...

I'd play an official 4X version of Game of Thrones.

 

[GunsGermsandSteel]

I think we're already getting enough fanciful stuff. I think the next few releases need to be realistic/historical.

I wouldn't mind if they added more to the future era in terms of sci-fi. Not just units either. Different buildings. Maybe an AI governor with Synthetic Technocracy.

 

[Greywulf]

There is potential for more themed scenarios, but I don't consider this to be by any means a priority. Still holding out for better diplomacy and AI (e.g. barbarian upgrade).

As for the core game, I do like to idea of being a bit creative with future techs and what they unlock, as long as it doesn't get ridiculous (time travel or teleportation like in Star Trek would be ridiculous).
I wouldn't want fantasy in the core game, though fantasy scenarios might be fun...Certain things I really don't like though, such as those cannibalistic vampires, which I would never agree to.

 

[marius_kaparius]

What if they made an adaptation of a setting? Warhammer, Dune, LotR etc...

I recall playing a Dragonlance setting in a mod IIRC. A scenario map based on one of the D&D settings would be a lot of fun.