What “killer feature” do you want to see in Civ 4? (Read, then pick up to 4 options)

What “killer feature” do you want for Civ 4? (READ, then pick up to 4 options)


  • Total voters
    241
Yes Yes, the SMAC is calling to you...

Come play me Epic, come now...

:D :crazyeye: :D :crazyeye: :D

-Col. Elgalad, leader of the Spartan faction
 
++Science
++Negotiations
++Government
++War

And if I had to pick another (although I cant) Id have to say terrain (ie larger, more detailed earth-like maps).
 
Wow, I guess one of the reasons negotiations is so popular is because it's so simple and uncontraversial?

Any more thoughts on negotiations? Any detractors who think there are many more important things?
 
Here's all I want out of a putative Civ IV:

1.) MOre civilizations. We still need:

(a) An African regional grouping (incl. Xhosa, Ethiopians, Berbers, Ashanti, Afrikaaners).

(b) Other significant cultures not included -- Sioux, Vietnamese, Franks, Thai (any African/Asian civilization that avoids colonization deserves to be included -- just as with Ethiopia.)

2.) Better AI to handle all the changes made so far more effectively (Armies, SGL, etc.)

3.) Ability to play with MORE AI civs in multiplayer mode. (I'm talking a monster game on a huge map with 16+ total human and AI civs).

4.) Window dressing: Better interface for unit movement (controlling workers/large stacks of units, etc.,) better graphics, city view pictures of ALL improvements, and return of the wonder movies ala Civ 2/SMAC (but not at the expense of (1), (2), and (3), above!)

5.) That's it. I'm pretty content otherwise. :)
 
Ok my votes:

Terrain++ : This is a part of the game that could easily be improved and enhance both eye candy (more terrain types thus more diversity on-screen) and gameplay (more worker actions, more terrain types allowing for different offensive\defensive strategies, city dev. and so on...)

disasters++ : linked to my previous choice leading to a more interesting\dynamic map that is no longer just a playing board...

negociations and economics : these areas need more depth IMHO.

I did not vote for war because I think the best way to improve it would be through other fields (like different unit support, unit building sys).
 
We're about to shift gears from negotiations. But before we do --

What do people think about the idea of involving "hub" nations in multilateral trade agreements? For example:

Rome wants to trade with China... but in order to do so, they need to involve both Persia and India in the agreement, to be able to get the goods back and forth. India and Persia charge a premium for using their roads as a trade route -- which Rome weighs against the costs of finding and paying for the maintainance of an alternate route themselves.

Not only does this let people jockey for good geographic position for reasons other than resources or plains.

But war has more sweeping effects than who's getting conquered. If India or Persia go to war, how the heck is Rome gonna trade with China? It's the start of globalization, even in 300 AD, where people say "hey, you settle your issues, because it's effecting us".

Am I making sense?
Assuming I make sense, is it a good idea?
 
Because they'd cheat? Or because they'd sell half their nation for a ham sandwich?
 
Science: Education.
If you don't keep up education, you lose techs that have already been researched, thus making a dark age possible. It could be a function of research, since they are linked. There is an automatic subtraction of test tubes every turn, then you add all the test tubes you earn through research spending amplified by education. If research spending and education are not high enough the result is negative and a tech is lost. Most recent or random choice would do. Or it could be more complex, tracking which tech was being used or not used, ie your advanced civilization may forget how to work bronze. Random would be almost right, but what do you do about prereqs? The core of the game is competing advancement (which is why silly frozen scenarios miss the point) over time.

Definitely Not: Provinces
Provinces already exist and they are called cities. If cities and city spheres of influence are not enough for you, subcapitols such as you get with the forbidden palace are the same thing. What's really fun is to make all wonders reduce corruption like the forbidden palace, and have a high level of corruption generally, so its a contest of developing distant cities into regional capitols. Leaders become really valuable, since they can increase the size of your empire by one such "province" by putting a wonder on the frontier.

Something Else: Multiple Layers Done Right. When I first bought Civ3 in October '01, not having played civ before, on rumor that Civ 2 had more techs than the Aof E series(which I loved, but had gotten tired of--as I have not really gotten tired of Civ SINCE IT IS MORE FLEXIBLE WITHOUT BEING FLUID) I looked at the box and thought: "Wow, Sim City with war, Aof E with cities!" Then I saw the lame city view and was disappointed, then learned to appreciate civ for what it is, not just what I had expected. But still, it would be nice to have that level of detail possible, where you can concentrate to a realtime tactical level of control similar to AofE, once two stacks start slugging it out in the civ like cental strategy and development game, or you can focus tightly on a single city, between turns, growing it like a simcity city. This would add without taking away, something the Civ4 manifesto apparantly abhors, but as long as this forum is about adding dreamy features, why not.
PS. The detail views could be something you earn with a tech/gov. For example, a City Management tech could earn you the right to micromanage cities (but only benefiting from free enteriprse to the extent you have a free government); a Tactical Leadership tech could earn you the right to micromanage battles, and etc...Not only would this produce a cool effect of lifting the veil of ignorance with progress, but it could be done as a lucrative series of expansions that don't alter the core. "NEW and IMPROVED with Advanced Dipomacy tech--now you too can micromanage international talks."

Resources: Resources could be done a lot better, and this would be the key to many other improvements that would snowball into a lot of fun stuff like supply lines and therefore better naval. It would have to be done very carefully or it would be a mess, which is why its a perfect item for a dream sheet with supposed supergenius designers. I think that Conquest on Colonization of the Americas was on the right track, but the treasures produced by resource exploitation buildings could be resource bundles, but there should also be some way to like stop tanks that don't have a supply line to oil--ie a city which has an unexpended oil bundle (buildng?).

Illegal Pick Number 5: Secessionist splinter civs.

Illegal Pick Number 6: Simple AI Editing. I want to be able to improve the AI without having to get a degree to do it.
 
Education is a neat idea. I think it has more role than just the advancement of technology, though. Obviously technology can advance with a very exclusive or limited education system based on the intellectually elite. And giving more people a strong foundation in education can make the big jump forward that much easier. Not to mention your thoughts on dark ages.

But education has a hidden curriculum. It builds national pride based on how you teach history. It builds moral values based on the manners you teach kids early on. In other words, it has the power to assimilate and build order in your empire. On the other hand, education has the power to make people ask harder questions, to explore the "grimier" parts of your history and criticize it, to even become cynical with the rule of your government. So education also has the power to destabilize.

I'm more just exploring the topic, not to say that all of it could be applied to Civ.

But choices to make could include:

- do you give a lopsided view of history, or do you encourage the truth, no matter how bad it makes you look? giving a lopsided view of history could reduce war weariness, and limit the *internal* damage that having a bad international reputation can cause, and prevent the probabilty of secession, even speed assimilation... but reduce happiness for those who are not ready to be assimilated, and increase the damage they do.

- is it something for the rich, or is it for everybody? does everyone in your society get public access until grade 5? does everyone in your society get public access until grade 12? can people go to university for free, so long as they want to? more education could have more effects -- good and bad

- do you want to encourage anything in particular? bare minimum is scientific stuff. but do you fund the sports and arts, encouraging culture? do you permit private education? do you give your schools a practical focus, encouraging manufacturing and production? do you tie your schools to the military?

These are all food for thought. I guess what I'm saying is that in real life, there's a genuine advantage to keeping your people dumb. Of course, in doing so, you take a risk of what you talk about -- a dark age. Because you failed to get those brilliant ideas out into the mainstream, the ideas disappeared, and your people are ignorant.

I'm also a fan of secession, as you might already know. I imagined that being tied into ideas of provinces, which i know might be hard to comprehend for the varied and polarized ideas about what provinces should do. I guess I failed to articulate that provinces could be exactly what we have in Civ 3 (that is, there are no provinces) except for adding secession -- which explains why the idea is unclear and uncompelling for some.

I've gotta bring support for your opinion on resources, though.
 
I think it should be possible that is a CIV lost al of its universities/libraries it could cause a dark ages. Think of all the knowledge that was lost when Alexandria burned...
Maybe the need for libraries (at least ONE/Civ) until Industrial, then Universities through modern...
 
Well a modified version of this would be interesting for the idea of Knowledge retention. There would be a need for a certain amount of libraries and universities to maintain knowledge and research. Research Libraries would be required to maintain and continue reserach in the modern ages. Maybe libraries and universiteis would make practical and decent research rates possible, instead of ssimply supplementing it.
 
I think this is kind of a bigger picture aspect... if libraries prevent dark ages, let alone influence the values and behaviors of your people, we're talking about a game where the people are kind of an obstacle. I know I'd like this, but a lot of people have made a case against this.

Still, I can't help but think of Warcraft, where you pump out units and they willingly go into battle to die no matter how stupid the order. I think that if Civ tried to be more like this, it would end up feeling like every Real Time Strategy Game, but slower because it is turn based.

It seems like a disasterous waste, guaranteed to only resonate with loyal Civ fans, if they even give it another chance. People who love war are going to say "enh, give me Age of Empires".
 
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