sealman
Hater of Babylonians
Speaking as an American of Lithuanian and Polish decent. They should be combined into one. The greatest period of their history was during their commonwealth.
What happend to all the American civs in PTW?
- Thread starter Yoda Power
- Start date
Speaking as an American of Lithuanian and Polish decent. They should be combined into one. The greatest period of their history was during their commonwealth.
jack merchant
Internationalist
The Arabs and the Ottomans - but could you really name another one that should be included for that time period ?
Also, a small nitpick: Islam didn't exist before 622 AD.
Edit: Another civ that should be included by this logic is the Byzantines - leader Justinian, UU the ships equipped with Greek fire. ANyone ?
Yoda Power
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- Sep 24, 2002
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Originally posted by jack merchant
Edit: Another civ that should be included by this logic is the Byzantines - leader Justinian, UU the ships equipped with Greek fire. ANyone ?
but they have the same capital as the Ottomans
dguichar
Warlord
I don't know if this was a serious list. But seeing my own country included on it really amazed me, also i noted that Brazil and our neighbor Argentina it isn't. That's more weird... specially when they are far more influential in south america.
Well, at least till the UN chose us to become part of the Security Council. What do we, the chileans, have to get this honor?
Anyway, civilization (apart from academic concept) comes from latin word: "civitas" which means city. So if it has at least one city it's a civilization, at least in the game view. Haven't you ever left the enemy civ reduced to just one city? Or tried the one city challenge yourself?
My last post gave an incomplete list of notorious american (from new world, not from u.s.) civilizations. I guess there are more (as i recently remembered) in Colonization game.
But we arrive to some point: what makes a settlement a city?
the size? the improvements? the developement of the labor division? the stability of its population? what makes it different from a village or a town? or any settelement constitutes a city?
Keep civilized and try out this questions
David
This is not necessary since I have included sween's Incan Leaderhead in my mod. You wil find the following additional Civs in the mod which is located on the disc. A total of 31 Civs.
1. Abyssinian (Ethiopian)
2. Incan
3. Indonesian (Majapahits)
4. Polish
5. Hungarian
6. Songhai (Mali)
7. Tibetans
8. Israel
China444-
"Civs that should be I ngame Incans Mayans Mali Portugal Indonesia Aborigine Dutch Swiss ireland Chile Vietnam Bangladesh Siberia Lithuania Poland."
Bangladesh? Surely that is as part of the Indian civ. Bnagladesh as a is relatively recent.
Ireland? Hmmm. Ok, but it would have to be centred around the 800AD ish era (until before the Vikings stepped in). Scientific and religious (saints and scholars). But I think the Dutch and the Portugeuse should have first shout of the Europeans if there are to be more.
By Parmenion-
"I don't know for sure, but are the cities listed for the Aztecs accurate? I was led to believe that Tenochtitlan was their one and only city, with a few villages around it."
They grew from that one city to a huge empire in the space of 100 years.
For anyone who wants it, the Nasca of Peru are another American civ.
Teturkhan-
Great mod. I've adapted it to my own style. Here are the civs I use from it ...
1. Abyssinian (Ethiopian)
2. Incan
3. Indonesian (Majapahits)
4. Polish
5. Cambodia
6. Turkistan (was there an extra creative element for this one)
7. Israel
"Civs that should be I ngame Incans Mayans Mali Portugal Indonesia Aborigine Dutch Swiss ireland Chile Vietnam Bangladesh Siberia Lithuania Poland."
Bangladesh? Surely that is as part of the Indian civ. Bnagladesh as a is relatively recent.
Ireland? Hmmm. Ok, but it would have to be centred around the 800AD ish era (until before the Vikings stepped in). Scientific and religious (saints and scholars). But I think the Dutch and the Portugeuse should have first shout of the Europeans if there are to be more.
By Parmenion-
"I don't know for sure, but are the cities listed for the Aztecs accurate? I was led to believe that Tenochtitlan was their one and only city, with a few villages around it."
They grew from that one city to a huge empire in the space of 100 years.
For anyone who wants it, the Nasca of Peru are another American civ.
Teturkhan-
Great mod. I've adapted it to my own style. Here are the civs I use from it ...
1. Abyssinian (Ethiopian)
2. Incan
3. Indonesian (Majapahits)
4. Polish
5. Cambodia
6. Turkistan (was there an extra creative element for this one)
7. Israel
rlw33
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 197
The criterion for including Civs in the game should be the impact they had on the world.
There are a great number of European Civilisations because all of those civilisations left a huge Mark on the world. As indeed have China, Egypt, India and the United States.
The reason that there are not more African or American civilisations in the world is that those countries were never world powers and had very little impact on the world except as a speed bump in the expansion of those countries that were world powers.
I personally find native american and pre-colonial African civilisations quite interesting, but you can't seriously expect anyone to believe that they were world powers (and therefore worthy of inclusion as Civ nations?).
cyal8r,
Raymond
There are a great number of European Civilisations because all of those civilisations left a huge Mark on the world. As indeed have China, Egypt, India and the United States.
The reason that there are not more African or American civilisations in the world is that those countries were never world powers and had very little impact on the world except as a speed bump in the expansion of those countries that were world powers.
I personally find native american and pre-colonial African civilisations quite interesting, but you can't seriously expect anyone to believe that they were world powers (and therefore worthy of inclusion as Civ nations?).
cyal8r,
Raymond
barron of ideas
Barron
I am under the impression that one of the most important criteria for inclusion as a civilization is that there are residents of the area that civilization occupied, or residents of civilizations influenced by the candidate civilization who will buy the game. So, as Koreans buy games there is a Korean civilization included in the game, sales in Africa are quite limited so there are not a great demand to add Songhi or Mali, or even Eithiopia which at least has the virtue of currently existing.
If any of you play ancient miniatures, like DBA or DBM or almost any rule set (Tactica) there is at the back of the rules a list of dozen of ancient civilizations (the Romans usually have at least 4 different armies) with armies you can play. I like the Palmyrans, and vote the next civilzation include Zenobia as an ancient leader. Special unit is the Camel rider, (they missed a bet with Arabia) or heavily armored heavy horseman, a Cataphract.
And the real measure of the impact of a civilization is its military force. Ask, who did they conquer? If they didn't conquer anyone, who ever heard of them?
If any of you play ancient miniatures, like DBA or DBM or almost any rule set (Tactica) there is at the back of the rules a list of dozen of ancient civilizations (the Romans usually have at least 4 different armies) with armies you can play. I like the Palmyrans, and vote the next civilzation include Zenobia as an ancient leader. Special unit is the Camel rider, (they missed a bet with Arabia) or heavily armored heavy horseman, a Cataphract.
And the real measure of the impact of a civilization is its military force. Ask, who did they conquer? If they didn't conquer anyone, who ever heard of them?
philippe
FYI, I chase trains.
firaxis will only make civs that are known to the masses.
Ask a person who was a pharoa?(Egyptian king spelling?)
They say Cleopatra
while one of the ramses guys should be or achnaton who did in a huge civ a idea from another tribe and brought it to a huge civ but it crumbled after his death
ask an non European a famouis French and they say d'arc
but d'arc NEVER ruled France!
So its about known poeple.
and thats why there are so many European civs and not so much South American and African civs
Ask a person who was a pharoa?(Egyptian king spelling?)
They say Cleopatra
while one of the ramses guys should be or achnaton who did in a huge civ a idea from another tribe and brought it to a huge civ but it crumbled after his death
ask an non European a famouis French and they say d'arc
but d'arc NEVER ruled France!
So its about known poeple.
and thats why there are so many European civs and not so much South American and African civs
Mullet Crusader
Celtic Warrior
Well, the reason the Civs in Civ 3 were chosen to be in teh game, is because they're all the famous civilizations throughout history that made a large impact on teh world. I mean, the Celts are in the game because of they reached all over Western Europe in their peak, and we still celebrate one of their religous ceremonies (Halloween, which, despite what religious fanatics will tell you, is NOT demonic) and its been speculated that if they hadn't been fighitng each other so much, they could've conquered even the mighty Roman Empire (Another famous Civilization) of course, i gues they sorta did indirectly with teh Garmanic tribes over time. We all know about Egypt because of its incredible acts of masonry and fascinating religious beliefs, America and Russia are in teh game because they are currently big world powers.
The reason there is no "Canadian" civ, or "Australian" civ, or anything of that nature is because those countries/cultures neevr really had any great impact. I mean, Canada is a cool country (Hockey!!) and Australians are some of the tougher guys out there, but these countries neevr really had any major historical impact, and assuming Humans are still around in 500 years, and history hasn't been re-written by the politically correct squad, or anything of that nature, America, Russia, Japan, Germany, China, we will still be reading about all of these civilizations, while other more minor civilizations/countries will probably still remain just sidenotes in history.
Also, while we're here, does it seem strange to anyone else the Zulus are a main Civ in the game? I mean, SHaka and the Zulus are hardly ever mentioned in any history books, and while anyone who wants to fight off an oppressive rule is cool in my book, i think that a lot of the reason the Zulus were included was just for a politically correct representation of all races, i mean, we had Asians, Europeans, and American Indians, so i think they might've just decided to include an African Civ in the game.
The reason there is no "Canadian" civ, or "Australian" civ, or anything of that nature is because those countries/cultures neevr really had any great impact. I mean, Canada is a cool country (Hockey!!) and Australians are some of the tougher guys out there, but these countries neevr really had any major historical impact, and assuming Humans are still around in 500 years, and history hasn't been re-written by the politically correct squad, or anything of that nature, America, Russia, Japan, Germany, China, we will still be reading about all of these civilizations, while other more minor civilizations/countries will probably still remain just sidenotes in history.
Also, while we're here, does it seem strange to anyone else the Zulus are a main Civ in the game? I mean, SHaka and the Zulus are hardly ever mentioned in any history books, and while anyone who wants to fight off an oppressive rule is cool in my book, i think that a lot of the reason the Zulus were included was just for a politically correct representation of all races, i mean, we had Asians, Europeans, and American Indians, so i think they might've just decided to include an African Civ in the game.
philippe
FYI, I chase trains.
THe Zulus had a great empire for their standards
they slaughtered an entire division (dont remember) of 9000 full trained veteran British men with spears and and great shields
Honour them becuase they had the heart of a lion,the cunningness of a crocodile and they ran like Cheetahs.
THey still speak Zoeloe now and are still doing their old ceremonies
they slaughtered an entire division (dont remember) of 9000 full trained veteran British men with spears and and great shields
Honour them becuase they had the heart of a lion,the cunningness of a crocodile and they ran like Cheetahs.
THey still speak Zoeloe now and are still doing their old ceremonies
SewerStarFish
King
TeTurk's mod really covers the world. Not only did he integrate the civilizations he mentioned but the barbarian tribes make up many of the others that have been mentioned in this thread. It's an all encompassing mod.
OFFTOPIC: Does the 1.21 bug w/barbarian slaves affect TeTurk's mod?
OFFTOPIC: Does the 1.21 bug w/barbarian slaves affect TeTurk's mod?
I agree the Incan's would have been a good addition,
My biggest bugbear is the english Civ ,
that civilisation should have been called Great Britain "england" would not have
been so great without the rest of the home nations.
Many over games both PC and board portray they as Gt Britian why not Civ?! or is it the usual Americian point of view..
My biggest bugbear is the english Civ ,
that civilisation should have been called Great Britain "england" would not have
been so great without the rest of the home nations.
Many over games both PC and board portray they as Gt Britian why not Civ?! or is it the usual Americian point of view..
barron of ideas
Barron
Let me say one more time, the civilizations in the game are mostly there because they help sell the game to customers.
CIV 1 replaced the turks (Ottomans) with the Germans (Frederick the Great) just before release (there is even an errata for the game manual, in my edition that discusses it, a little.
It is clear to me they thought about sales in Germany compared to potential sales in Turkey, and went with Frederick to help increase the sales potential in Germany. It may not have been a big impact, but the incretmental costs of having countries you expect to get sales in represented is low. They don't get many sales in Africa or South America, so they don't pick a lot of historical civilizations from those areas.
And technically, Egypt is an African civilization.
However, Cleopatra was Greek (Macedonian). The Ptolomies were decended from one of Alexander's generals. You know they didn't get any Egyptians in her ancestry, they all married brothers and sisters to keep the bloodline "divine".
CIV 1 replaced the turks (Ottomans) with the Germans (Frederick the Great) just before release (there is even an errata for the game manual, in my edition that discusses it, a little.
It is clear to me they thought about sales in Germany compared to potential sales in Turkey, and went with Frederick to help increase the sales potential in Germany. It may not have been a big impact, but the incretmental costs of having countries you expect to get sales in represented is low. They don't get many sales in Africa or South America, so they don't pick a lot of historical civilizations from those areas.
And technically, Egypt is an African civilization.
However, Cleopatra was Greek (Macedonian). The Ptolomies were decended from one of Alexander's generals. You know they didn't get any Egyptians in her ancestry, they all married brothers and sisters to keep the bloodline "divine".
