What happened to "Guarded" and "Hostile"?

[Dux1]

I'm on my second BNW game right now, playing as Mongolia. Despite reports of lower AI aggressiveness, I was able to piss off Poland enough that they declared war on me around turn 100. However, I've noticed that their attitude in the Diplomacy menu before that never dipped below "Neutral." The war ended with a fairly even armistice, but now, despite the fact Poland has a laundry list of negative diplomacy modifiers a mile long, their attitude still registers as "Neutral" in the diplomacy menu. It's weird because Casimir greets me in the diplomacy screen angrily and won't make any fair deals, but the game still tells me Poland is "Neutral."

Come to think of it, I've never seen a Civ register as less than "Neutral" yet in BNW. Has anyone?

 

[Aristos]

First, remember that those are "politically correct" stances that may or may not be true. They might be hostile to you but not showing it (nor some of the modifiers that make them hostile).

Second, yes, I have seen the entire spectrum. As I said in another thread, my overall impression so far is that the Brave New AI has improved its "situational awareness", and takes more factors into account (among them the multitude of new factors in BNW) when making political decisions.

 

[Navelgazer]

Playing as Assyria I took out Venice and Poland in the first 100 turns, leaving on Brazil and Morocco sharing the continent with me. I guarantee you both registered as "Guarded."

 

[Navelgazer]

It's also worth mentioning that Casimir has a super-high Warmonger hatred, which might explain why he hair-triggered from neutral to war. In the case I mentioned above, both Ahmad and Pedro "tolerate warmongers," so that might be why I saw more of a spectrum from them while laying waste around town.

 

[Txurce]

I've seen both, in my present game on Immortal.

 

[Gucumatz]

Yes, I have seen both. Again people BNW didn't completely change everything on its head if you haven't seen it yet, you probably will with a bigger sample size

 

[Dux1]

First, remember that those are "politically correct" stances that may or may not be true. They might be hostile to you but not showing it (nor some of the modifiers that make them hostile)..

This turned out to be a very astute observation. Just after making the OP, I placed a spy in Casimir's empire where I found out that he was planning a sneak attack against an unknown Civ (pretty obviously me, given the circumstances). He was still registering as Neutral at this point, but then about 7 turns later, he and Persia (who was also "Neutral," but had a friendlier disposition in conversation) both declared war on me simultaneously.

Honestly, it was beautiful. Casimir knew that my military was stronger than his, so he waited until he could get the support of an ally to commit. In the meantime, he didn't want to come off as a threat. Color me impressed!

Also, it's good to hear that "Guarded" and "Hostile" aren't dead. Just more situational now, it seems.

 

[Jon the Bastard]

I've seen those "stances" in all three of my games so far. However, they usually don't start showing up until the World Congress starts and then they REALLY start showing up once the ideologies come into play.

 

[Browd]

Well, if you start conquering early enough, Guarded and Hostile seem to come as early as they ever have.

 

[Bisqit]

In my game Portugal is currently guarded while The Zulus and Indonesia are hostile so those are still around.

 

[animalcross]

Well since I have yet to play a civ V game (BNW or Not) where at least one person doesn't consider me a warmongering menace, this is no problem for me.

 

[Aaron90495]

Yup, like the others I've seen Guarded and Hostile multiple times already. Actually, I saw Afraid a few times last game, which I hadn't seen in a while (although I dropped down to Emperor and had a huge army, which likely explains it).

 

[GreenThings]

In my most recent game Egypt and Askia remained Guarded for the entire game and Morocco Hostile for the whole game, and this was on Warlord. They're there all right.

 

[Makavcio]

Attitudes of leaders have undergone a tremendous rebalancing or become much more realistic, for the lack of a better way to put it. When you hate someone's guts, you seldom approach him with foam coming from corners of your lips. Revenge is a dish best served cold and so is backstabbing.

Furthermore, "neutral" in GnK meant "I don't know or I don't care" while it is now "you are getting standard diplomatic treatments". With some isolationist civilizations it's hard to change their neutrality in one way or another. No matter whether you have a green or red "diplomatic background", they will still act pretty much the same. It took 3 thousand years to convince Shoshone to open their borders despite even declarations of friendship, while after the 5th war Shaka was still willing to cooperate with me, mostly because there was nobody else willing, methinks.

 

[ptoss1]

I actually think there's much more backstabbing in BNW than GK. The aggression is lower, but if you do something that pisses them off they'll all start denouncing you even if you were buddy buddy with them before. And not all at the same time too. Their status doesn't really change and it's hard to calculate who will be offended if you do what when you go to war. I conquered half the continent but America didn't seem bothered even though I dishonored all my agreements not to invade the other civs. Then I conquered America.

 

[VogeleR]

Here's what's interesting: it even possible to be attacked by "guarded" civ?
Is it (status hostile/guarded) always strictly depends on the civs strength ratio?

 

[joncnunn]

Japan has been "Guarded" against me for quite some time in my game as Venice.

They don't like that I bought Jerusalem which is right next to them nor my proposal to have a standing military tax.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I had more Civs Guarded than Neutral or Friendly by the end of my game.

 

[Dostayer]

In my first game as Venice, all of the Civs were on Guarded, and with some justice.

 

[Falconiano]

Oda became Guarded when I took his whole territory and left him with just a lvl 1 city settled on snow.