What if... France had never sold Louisiana in 1803 ?

[D' Artagnan]

Redstorm' s "What if..." inspired me this one.

Louisana was sold by Napoleon for almost nothing ( 80m of Francs ), in 1803.
It covered 1/3 of the present US territory.
(BTW, it would be nice if smne could attach a map of the US at that time, with former Louisiana in it.)

EDIT : the officiial reason, was according to Napoleon : " Strenghten forever the US power, which could give to England a maritime rival, that sooner or later would diminuate its arrogance [England's ] [roughly translated from the French ]
There were many unofficial reasons that I won't give here...

Now, what would have happened if France never sold Louisiana, and kept colonizing the area ?
IMO, it would have become independant problably some decades after, but the US would definitely not be the major power it is nowadays.
Also, the US would have only kept the eastern third part of present US, since they couldn't have extended to the West because of Louisiana.

Or maybe there would have been a US vs France war to conquer the territory ? ( IMO, this wouldn't have happened since the US and France were great allies at that time)

 

[Noldodan]

well, for one thing France wouldn't have kept colonizing. The entire reason why they sold was because it wasn't very easily colonized and required a large military pesence. The other reason why was because there was no way for them to safely get anything made there to France, as the Caribbean was still English/Spanish controlled.

 

[Raijer]

Origianlly posted by D'Artagnan
Or maybe there would have been a US vs France war to conquer the territory? ( IMO, this wouldn't have happened since the US and France were great allies at that time)

Your hypothetical question was a very real concern to the American government in 1803. Just prior to that, the Spanish had control of New Orleans (and thus the outlet to the Mississippi), which was only mildly irritating to the Americans, as Spain was then pretty weak and could be pushed around with relative ease. But since Spain had decided to return the territory to French rule, Jefferson wrote in 1802, "Nothing since the Revolutionary War has produced such uneasy sensations through the body of the nation." France was then the most powerful nation in the world, and very well could have returned to creating a North American empire that it had given up in 1763.

Jefferson sent James Monroe to assist his Paris envoy Robert Livingston to open negotiations with Bonapart in hopes of insuring some kind of navigation rights or territorial purchase. The cherries all lined up (ching ching), and Jefferson got the deal of a lifetime!

But if the deal hadn't gone through, I think that Jefferson's letter to John Breckinridge suggests the course of American action. The context of the letter is Jefferson's admittal (in private, of course) that nothing in the US Consitution gave him any power to make such a purchase, but he said that if the French had kept Louisiana, America would have to "marry ourselves to the British fleet and nation." Why? Simple: "I would not give one inch of the Mississippi to any nation, because I see in a light very important to our peace the exclusive right to its navigation..."

I think the Americans would have gone to war for this territory, and would have sold their souls to England gladly to do it.
_

 

[Knight-Dragon]

I think the French sold it 'cause it was too far and costly to defend vis-a-vis the British.

Also the Napoleonic Wars had bankrupted France, and they needed funds urgently.

 

[Raijer]

Originally posted by Knight-Dragon
Also the Napoleonic Wars had bankrupted France, and they needed funds urgently.

Very true. And the deal with the Americans was money up front. That helped keep Bonapart solvent for a little while longer!

 

[Plexus]

 

[ozscott75]

Britney Spears would be French!

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by D' Artagnan
Redstorm' s "What if..." inspired me this one.

Louisana was sold by Napoleon for almost nothing ( 80m of Francs ), in 1803.
It covered 1/3 of the present US territory.
(BTW, it would be nice if smne could attach a map of the US at that time, with former Louisiana in it.)

EDIT : the officiial reason, was according to Napoleon : " Strenghten forever the US power, which could give to England a maritime rival, that sooner or later would diminuate its arrogance [England's ] [roughly translated from the French ]
There were many unofficial reasons that I won't give here...

Now, what would have happened if France never sold Louisiana, and kept colonizing the area ?
IMO, it would have become independant problably some decades after, but the US would definitely not be the major power it is nowadays.
Also, the US would have only kept the eastern third part of present US, since they couldn't have extended to the West because of Louisiana.

Or maybe there would have been a US vs France war to conquer the territory ? ( IMO, this wouldn't have happened since the US and France were great allies at that time)

Evetually the alliance would have disappeared; the Americans would have taken it from them by force, and France would have received no money, only humiliation.

 

[redtom]

According to the book "More What If's". Napoleon was hoping to spread his empire into America, but got stopped by his troops being killed of by Yellow Fever. According to the book this would had endangered the newly independent state of the USA. The write theorises that USA may had to give up its independence and ask the UK to help protect them.

Possibly, we would have seen the USA being the founding member of the British Commonwealth. Or possibly it may had become a part of Canada! Or giving the huge population it may had become part of Anglo-american empire! Maybe I'm taking it too far, but its amazing how the smallest of things could change the course of history.

 

[West German]

The Americans would have attacked it when it became independent.

 

[Creepster]

The French were loosing control of it when they sold it to the Americans. It took too long to get troops and any form of communication across the Atlantic. Just for those reasons alone the French were loosing control of the territory. American colonists were moving westward into the territory and were outnumbering the French there quite quickly. It may have taken a few more generations but they would have becoime US states either way.

You could argue that without the invention of the Telegraph and the Railroad the US would have lost control of the west that it had recently gained control of. Without a means of getting rapid communication and transportaion there is no way to control and govern these large empires. The British were able to do it with strong leaders and armies/navies that had a technological advantage over the locals. When that technological advantage began to disappear they also lost control of the colony.

 

[Zcylen]

it was a very big territory
napoleon must needed the money so badly to sell such big amount of land.

 

[D' Artagnan]

Originally posted by Zcylen
it was a very big territory
napoleon must needed the money so badly to sell such big amount of land.

I don't think so : he just knew he wouldn't keep it very long since the British could attack from Canada, and he had very little troops in garrison in Louisiana.

 

[BloodyPepperoni]

We wouldn't be the only french North American nation!

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by D' Artagnan
I don't think so : he just knew he wouldn't keep it very long since the British could attack from Canada, and he had very little troops in garrison in Louisiana.

Correct. The British would have an effective blockade for the entire period following Trafalgar. If it were intact and sovereign today it would be one of the 10-20 largest and richest nations in the world. By selling it in one piece, Napoleon funded his army, reduced his commitments and removed a target for British expansion. That sounds like good reasoning to me.

J

 

[EmperorSnefix]

Easily would've made the war of 1812 alot more interesting.

 

[Unregister]

A lot of us wouldn't be alive.

 

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by BloodyPepperoni
We wouldn't be the only french North American nation!

Quebec is not a nation. Anyway, whats deal w/ people wanting Quebec seperate from Canada. Sure their we problems in the past, but arent those gone now?

 

[rilnator]

I agree with West German, after a short while the Americans would have found reason to occupy it for themselves- probably to 'protect it from the British'.

 

[Silverflame]

I think Napoleon wouldve gone bankrupt, causing him to go into defeat faster. Then the Congress of Vienna would most likely "grant" British Canada the Louisiana Territory. From there, who knows what would have happened.