"What If" Units Creation Center, Ideas Requested

[Matsuda123]

Hello,

I've begun developing ideas for units from other cultures. Civ IV is a game all about rewriting history in any way you want, yet unfortunately most unit upgrades lead down the same path to designs we have in real life.

I'd like to help change that. I've begun conceiving what it would be like if different nations invented things on their own. For example, what does it look like when MesoAmericans invent gunpowder? I'd like to know, and have begun developing the ideas. I'd like to share these ideas and get advice, as well as suggestions from other users. Do you have an idea of what a Polynesian battleship looks like? How about a Mongol tank? I'd love to hear about it, so I can draw up concepts, and get them modeled for usage in Civ IV. Then, we can finally have a game where you can truly rewrite history.

Here is the first set of concepts I've drawn up. MesoAmerican handcannons / possible musket designs. If you have suggestions on how to improve the appearances to better reflect MesoAmerican cultures, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I think those designs for Mesoamerican firearms are spot on. They would definitely make them ornate, its a part of their culture, everything is done to impress when it comes to warriors and weapons, at least those of higher, often noble rank.

With Polynesians were to draw from the nautical history, as Europe did, then Polynesians would be developing ships which would be improvements to the original Catamaran design. They would make improvements, and by the time they reached an equaliant to the Bronze age they would have some very fast, relyable warships, probably superior to any Greek Trireme, consider they would have to be able to sail in the pacific. As for battleships, they might be Catamaran like, but I see them combining the Cruiser with the Aircraft Carrier for some reason. One of the parts of the Catamaran shape would be the gun part, the other a carrier for aircraft.

Mongols with Tanks. I think Mongols would favor light tank designs. What it would look like would favor speed, with firepower, maybe more than one gun barrel for quicker firing if possible.

 

[Matsuda123]

I think those designs for Mesoamerican firearms are spot on. They would definitely make them ornate, its a part of their culture, everything is done to impress when it comes to warriors and weapons, at least those of higher, often noble rank.

With Polynesians were to draw from the nautical history, as Europe did, then Polynesians would be developing ships which would be improvements to the original Catamaran design. They would make improvements, and by the time they reached an equaliant to the Bronze age they would have some very fast, relyable warships, probably superior to any Greek Trireme, consider they would have to be able to sail in the pacific. As for battleships, they might be Catamaran like, but I see them combining the Cruiser with the Aircraft Carrier for some reason. One of the parts of the Catamaran shape would be the gun part, the other a carrier for aircraft.

Mongols with Tanks. I think Mongols would favor light tank designs. What it would look like would favor speed, with firepower, maybe more than one gun barrel for quicker firing if possible.

These are all good ideas. I agree with them really, especially the Mongol's preference for a light tank. I am almost certain that I will have Polynesian Battleships with twin hulls like the Catamarans. It'll be great. i will have designs for these things in time.

Currently, the plan is to develop things in technological order. That way, I can build on the previous incarnation and improve upon it for the next wave of upgrades. For example, I will be developing Landships first, then WWII type tanks, then Modern Armor. I've been building up my reference picture library for a while to do this. Native America will be especially tricky to develop for, but I have a few plans already. Expect sketches soon. and models shortly after. If you have any ideas for other nations and tech, I'd be interested to hear. And that goes for anyone too.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

The Haida developed armored warriors on their own along with the nearby tribes. They developed a sailing canoe after seeing a european ship in the distance, and I'm sure they would have developed sailing on their own as well. The ship looks very similiar to an ancient galley. I imagine more advanced ships would be decorated richly with the line art those tribes were famous for. Also with animal totems like raven heads at the front of the ship.

 

[Matsuda123]

The Haida developed armored warriors on their own along with the nearby tribes. They developed a sailing canoe after seeing a european ship in the distance, and I'm sure they would have developed sailing on their own as well. The ship looks very similiar to an ancient galley. I imagine more advanced ships would be decorated richly with the line art those tribes were famous for. Also with animal totems like raven heads at the front of the ship.

Funny you mention the Haida. they're one of my key sources on developing Native American advanced weapons. I found several shapes that may make for ideal guns, and the armor is useful as well. Do you have a picture of that sailing canoe? It would be most useful. I plan on incorporating the bows of their canoes for sure, and rich painting. I was thinking, perhaps I can use the totem pole as the mast for their ships. Or more advanced ships at least.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Remember that only the pacific northwest coast tribes built totem poles, just like the plains tribes were the ones to dwell in Tepees. There was no "Native American" united culture, but many many cultures across the continent.

 

[Matsuda123]

Remember that only the pacific northwest coast tribes built totem poles, just like the plains tribes were the ones to dwell in Tepees. There was no "Native American" united culture, but many many cultures across the continent.

Yeah I remember that much. In the far future, I would probably divide the North American continent into a few different regions, and give them all variations on these units. For now however, I just want to get some basics down. Get a couple units from across the continent to represent the differences between the tribes. So for now, I'm mostly modeling on the Northwest. Haida derived muskets/handcannons, Haida Galleys and Triremes, an Iroquois Ironclad. Should be fun.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

That does sound pretty awesome.

Off the top of my head, not counting nomadic tribes, the civilizations of North(not Mesoamerica) America other than pacific northwest were in the woodlands(Iroquois and such), the Mississippian mound builder culture that lasted hundreds of years, Cahokia being the last in a great line, and the Anasazi/Ancient Pueblo. Those would be good places to look I think

 

[Matsuda123]

That does sound pretty awesome.

Off the top of my head, not counting nomadic tribes, the civilizations of North(not Mesoamerica) America other than pacific northwest were in the woodlands(Iroquois and such), the Mississippian mound builder culture that lasted hundreds of years, Cahokia being the last in a great line, and the Anasazi/Ancient Pueblo. Those would be good places to look I think

Yeah those sound about right. Good sources for sure. I'm definitely looking at Cahokia for ways to dream up other eras for their cities. It is going to be rather difficult to create Medieval, Renaissance and beyond sets for their cities, but it should be fun too. Do you have any ideas about the cities?

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Yeah I've thought about how the Cahokia culture would evolve. I think they would continue building mounds until they mastered masonry, which could come from trading with the distant Mayan or Mesoamerican people, as there was a New World "Silk Road" and the Mound Builders themselves had fallen under some mayan influence already. So I think they would begin building temple complexes, probably shaped like the old mound temples. I don't believe they would color them red like the maya, or white like mesoamerica.

For Medieval you would build on what is there already. Greater technology would lead to greater and grander temples and cities. The simple huts the people had been living in would be replaced by stone buildings. The building style of the temples would be more elaborate, perhaps columns would be an additional feature of buildings. There would be color on the building roofs at least.

Renaissance would bring in multi-story buildings, and the capability of massive temples, with this technology lvl in Europe and China you saw things like the Sistine Chapel or the multi-story pagoda(porqulain tower).

Industrial might not go the route it did in England and other places. Instead of replacing and rejecting the past, Industrial buildings could be built into the designs of existing kinds of buildings. Imagine a Temple of Industry for example.

Beyond that, a Modern Cahokian culture might resemble some comic book super-civilization.

 

[Matsuda123]

Yeah I've thought about how the Cahokia culture would evolve. I think they would continue building mounds until they mastered masonry, which could come from trading with the distant Mayan or Mesoamerican people, as there was a New World "Silk Road" and the Mound Builders themselves had fallen under some mayan influence already. So I think they would begin building temple complexes, probably shaped like the old mound temples. I don't believe they would color them red like the maya, or white like mesoamerica.

For Medieval you would build on what is there already. Greater technology would lead to greater and grander temples and cities. The simple huts the people had been living in would be replaced by stone buildings. The building style of the temples would be more elaborate, perhaps columns would be an additional feature of buildings. There would be color on the building roofs at least.

Renaissance would bring in multi-story buildings, and the capability of massive temples, with this technology lvl in Europe and China you saw things like the Sistine Chapel or the multi-story pagoda(porqulain tower).

Industrial might not go the route it did in England and other places. Instead of replacing and rejecting the past, Industrial buildings could be built into the designs of existing kinds of buildings. Imagine a Temple of Industry for example.

Beyond that, a Modern Cahokian culture might resemble some comic book super-civilization.

These sound like pretty great ideas so far. I like the transition to stone, though I would surely keep some wooden structures as well due to their location. I'm certain the structures would be highly decorated as the eras advanced forward I'm certain the buildings would be impressive. As for Industrial, this is also a good plan. I have no intention of ridding the culture of past traditions, but rather adding to it. I'll make the smokestacks look different, so they come across as a Native American construction. I have plans for Japan to be similar. Higher structures of previous designs, a few buildings I think would look great for factories, that sort of thing. As I say, you'll be seeing sketches of these soon. Another difficult task will be redesigning the wonders to still have the shape of the wonders, but also be made from the architecture of different cultures.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

the pyramids are the easiest...but i suppose that goes without saying

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Some Haida stuff:

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/11/7a/6e/117a6eeb98a9ac07d57af6424556542d.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/7e/fc/bf/7efcbfdc80ffe30a001cfd3500538a09.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/cf/c6/93/cfc6938e55d2ca84df7e3e3034c168af.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f3/41/00/f34100d4eb599f06f6541e64576995ef.jpg