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I don't think that that defines someone as a Christian. After all, many churches baptize babies. And to be baptized, I think you need to understand what's going on and be willing to be baptized.
What is a christian?
- Thread starter HannibalBarka
- Start date
I don't think that that defines someone as a Christian. After all, many churches baptize babies. And to be baptized, I think you need to understand what's going on and be willing to be baptized.
KJV uses the word children in matthew 5:9 not sons (in greek : paidion) also Musslim good points in you referred to makes a lot of sense because there are many TYPES of Christ in the old testament . Joseph was a main one especially since Joseph means Jesus. Example the word "anointed" referres to Cyrus who is a Gentile type of Christ. the types are :
conquerors Of Isreal's enemies ; restorers of the Jerusalem ; through both the name of God is glorified .
Originally posted by Achinz
Caller?
I repeat: the criterion emphasised by the posters here is the primacy of the position of Jesus. Catholicism places others like Mary, saints and the Pope in almost equal importance.
No.
Catholics place Jesus way ahead of Mary or the pope. According to catholics, Mary and the popes are mere humans, while Jesus was God.
The catholics are of course christians.
Shadylookin
master debater
i fail to see the difference is a son not the child of the father? you don't worship these other people that have the same titles of jesus why?
Achinz
Hermit of Huangshan
It's in the practice that one draws the distinction of difference between Catholics and the Jesus-only sects.
I've not made the general statement that Catholicism is not Christianity. My point is always within the context of this thread for those who *read carefully*
Originally posted by Achinz
It's in the practice that one draws the distinction of difference between Catholics and the Jesus-only sects.
I've not made the general statement that Catholicism is not Christianity. My point is always within the context of this thread for those who *read carefully*
Ok.
Just wanted to make it clear that catholics do NOT worship Mary or the saints, as is sometimes stated.
Pontiuth Pilate
Republican Jesus!
A christian is someone who lives his life according to the principles expounded by Christ, just as an epicurean or a stoic is someone who lives his or life according to the principles taught by Epicurus or Zeno [who was the first Stoic].
I am a christian; I am not a Christian. Christianity is socially useless. As many Christians in this thread have already demonstrated, Christianity involves personal faith and belief which have nothing to do with how one behaves. The philosophy known as christianity, on the other hand, is perhaps among the best five ever suggested, imho even among the best three. However I regard it as little more than coincidence [what with the obscene ritualism, mysticism, and obscurantism that many churches indulge in] that any more Christians are christians than the statistical average would lead you to expect. Is the murder rate lower among Christians? By definition, a christian would be more charitable than a non-christian. Does the same apply to Christians?
I am a christian; I am not a Christian. Christianity is socially useless. As many Christians in this thread have already demonstrated, Christianity involves personal faith and belief which have nothing to do with how one behaves. The philosophy known as christianity, on the other hand, is perhaps among the best five ever suggested, imho even among the best three. However I regard it as little more than coincidence [what with the obscene ritualism, mysticism, and obscurantism that many churches indulge in] that any more Christians are christians than the statistical average would lead you to expect. Is the murder rate lower among Christians? By definition, a christian would be more charitable than a non-christian. Does the same apply to Christians?
Margim
Footy's back.
Someone's been reading their CS Lewis
.That's a very easy way to look at it, but I'm not sure that is the case. A little hypothetical scenario...
Tanks are rolling down the streets of Berlin, with little red flags standing over them. The city is decimated, the Riech has fallen!
Hitler stands in his bunker. He is trapped, he knows it. There is no way out! Oh wait, yes there is one. That Bonhoffer said something about a guy named Jesus - before he had him executed for treason.
"Um, Jesus, I want you to help me out now. You know those millions of people I slaughtered. I'm kind of wish I had not done it. i don't really want to go to hell - how about I confess!". Follwing this, Adolf promptly shoots himself.
"Sure," Jesus replied when he gets to the afterlife. "Just sit over there with Abraham, St Peter and Dietrich Bonhoffer".
Alternatively;
Abdullah was on his deathbed. He was peaceful, tranquil. He knew he had lived a good life, according to the teachings of the prophet. He had upheld the five pillars of his faith, endeavouring to the will of Allah, as he understood it. He gave to the poor, he strictly kept to the strictures of monotheistic belief. He had taken in and rasied three oprhans from the village, and had used his basic mediacal training to help the sick. He had even sacfriced the remainder of his life savings to make the trip to Mecca to honour the shrine to the most high. He was surely assured paradise.
After passing from earth, he sees Allah. Next to him is a man, a man with a kind face. "Are you an angel?" Abdullah asks.
"No," said the man. "I'm afraid I am Jesus. Didn't know about me, did you?" Two angels promptly walk along and haul the man off to the gates of hell, where he is thrown into eternal fire and torment.
To tell you the truth, I have no idea how the selection process in heaven will take place - but I am sure that the second man would have a better chance than Hitler. Its not as all black and white as saying the right words.
bobgote
Trousers
on all points. nice work stapel.
Originally posted by Achinz
Caller?
I repeat: the criterion emphasised by the posters here is the primacy of the position of Jesus. Catholicism places others like Mary, saints and the Pope in almost equal importance.
I'm not saying that Catholics themselves don't think they're Christians, just that in the context of this particular thread and the special criterion stated here it doesn't fit.
==
What Criterion are you going on about! ,
your talking through your hat, man
Catholic's believe That Jesus is the son of God, full stop,
therefore they are as much Christians as Protestant's.
Mary is Jesus's mum, the pope is a human being head of the church, And Jesus is the son of God, whats so hard to understand about that?>
ybbor
Will not change his avata
yes, i think that's how it works. although it's a bit more complicated than saying the right words, it's beieving the right thing. what you have to understand is that all sins are trvial next to denying God exists. and all good deeeds are pathetic compared to worshiping your creator
ybbor
I want no part in the religion/sect/nutcase collection that believes this nonsense. Talk about evangelical claptrap - I thought all this deathbed conversion and you're saved stuff had gone the way of flat earths or smallpox.
I'm already atheist, but you'd be enought to put anyone right off.
re your comments to col - Jesus was a nice guy, who said some admirable stuff - 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' springs to mind. But I too don't believe everything he said - and there's no contradiction in that. If it's a choice between son of god and lunatic, then I'll stick with lunatic who nonetheless preached an admirable moral code.
I want no part in the religion/sect/nutcase collection that believes this nonsense. Talk about evangelical claptrap - I thought all this deathbed conversion and you're saved stuff had gone the way of flat earths or smallpox.
I'm already atheist, but you'd be enought to put anyone right off.
re your comments to col - Jesus was a nice guy, who said some admirable stuff - 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' springs to mind. But I too don't believe everything he said - and there's no contradiction in that. If it's a choice between son of god and lunatic, then I'll stick with lunatic who nonetheless preached an admirable moral code.
bobgote
Trousers
@Margim: if he commits suicide then don't matter what came before that.
Well that the same way with lord . there is a difference between lord and LORD in the bible. Now a lord isn't to be worship as God but yet his is in the position of God. My parents was in the position of God when I was young. So there is a differnece between my earthly father and my heavenly Father but yet my earthly father is a type of my heavenly Father . He look after me and took care of me. Even today that I'm older my father is there with me if I need him. So the old testament are full of the types of Christ and the Father > Example did you know there is a type of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in the book of Genesis? Can you figure out who represents each ? ( by the way even earthly marriage is a type of the heavenly marriage between Christ and His Bride -the church )
Margim
Footy's back.
Woops, I seem to have ignited something here. Guys, I'm not stating things one way or the other - ultimately, God decides. My point was we as humans can't work out the ins and outs of heaven... last I checked God was not dictated too by human preconceptions of how thigns were supposed to work.
@ ybbor.
I disagree. I think its sad the level to which the 'us' vs 'them' belief acts to the exclusion of all others. If God is a God of compassion and grace, as I believe he is, then surely he will take time to at least consider individuals. I think it is sick if a lynching, racist biggot, for example, gets into heavan simply because he says I love Jesus, without actually attempting to reflect Jesus' teachings.
The two greatest commandments? Love the lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbour as yourself. The second man did both, in accordance with the understanding he had.
Jesus gives the good samaritan, an unclean heretic, credit in the bible purely for his good deeds. Who are we to lay judgement? Who are you to lay judgement?
@ Speedo
What do you mean everyone gets a chance at salvation? The remote buddhist monk, or the man living in the heartland of Arabia may not hear the message of Christianity at all.
@ Bobgote
Sorry, why does suicide make it not matter?
Darn, you guys are confusing me with all this Avatar swapping.
@ ybbor.
I disagree. I think its sad the level to which the 'us' vs 'them' belief acts to the exclusion of all others. If God is a God of compassion and grace, as I believe he is, then surely he will take time to at least consider individuals. I think it is sick if a lynching, racist biggot, for example, gets into heavan simply because he says I love Jesus, without actually attempting to reflect Jesus' teachings.
The two greatest commandments? Love the lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbour as yourself. The second man did both, in accordance with the understanding he had.
Jesus gives the good samaritan, an unclean heretic, credit in the bible purely for his good deeds. Who are we to lay judgement? Who are you to lay judgement?
@ Speedo
What do you mean everyone gets a chance at salvation? The remote buddhist monk, or the man living in the heartland of Arabia may not hear the message of Christianity at all.
@ Bobgote
Sorry, why does suicide make it not matter?
Darn, you guys are confusing me with all this Avatar swapping.
bobgote
Trousers
Well if he commits suicide, he's committing murder right after he repents, with no chance to be forgiven for that. can't really repent when you're about to commit premeditated murder.
Margim
Footy's back.
Ok, I see your point. I guess it was a bad example... what if an officer decided to kill him, and he was murdered? What that make him any more acceptable?
