What is a civilization?

[mintyfreshdeath]

By what merits do a group of people be called a Civilization? Is there a definition for Civ3 and a definition for real life?

I feel this question is every bit as pertinent as "What new civs for Civ4?"
Here is the definition according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

Main Entry: civ·i·li·za·tion
Pronunciation: "si-v&-l&-'zA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 1772
1 a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained b : the culture characteristic of a particular time or place
2 : the process of becoming civilized
3 a : refinement of thought, manners, or taste b : a situation of urban comfort
- civ·i·li·za·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective


I'm curious to know what your definition is...

 

[America444]

any civilizied group of people who have established an organized standard system of writing and reading

 

[Longasc]

Civ 3 definition:
Leaderhead, city names, UU, 2 Traits.



or:

CIVILIZATION
an advanced state of human society in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and government has been reached; people or nations that have reached such a state

someone define "culture", please...

 

[Elessar]

Civilization : a group of people who are advanced enough to have a word for it?!?!?

 

[Michael York]

In civ, little more than a nation.

Culture group in civ=civilization, exp:
Western Civilization=SIGMA(America, France, England, Celts, Romans, Germans, Greeks, Dutch, Portugese, Spainish, Vikings)

 

[Smellincoffee]

Civilization comes from civitas-- the culture of cities.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by mintyfreshdeath
By what merits do a group of people be called a Civilization? Is there a definition for Civ3 and a definition for real life?

I feel this question is every bit as pertinent as "What new civs for Civ4?"
Here is the definition according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

Main Entry: civ·i·li·za·tion
Pronunciation: "si-v&-l&-'zA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 1772
1 a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained b : the culture characteristic of a particular time or place
2 : the process of becoming civilized
3 a : refinement of thought, manners, or taste b : a situation of urban comfort
- civ·i·li·za·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective


I'm curious to know what your definition is...

With that definition, you'd have to get rid of the Iroquois, the Zulus, and perhaps the Celts.

 

[Wakboth]

I think the problem is that you're looking at the definition of a civilization in the past tense. A group of people isn't a civilization until it's achieved certain accomplishments. The whole point of the game is that you determine whether your tribe becomes a civilization of note, or just some forgotten tribe. If we base the criteria only on what qualifies as a civilization in our world, then there'd be no point in playing. Just hit the "play" button and let the game repeat history for you. Kinda boring...

So anyone *can* become a civilization. It's up to you to make it that way. In game terms I think the choice of civilizations is purely about combinations of attributes. You need to come up with a number of civs for play so that each combination of attributes is available for play. Sometimes, that's going to mean putting in groups that weren't successful as civs in the real world, but that could be in the game.

After all, the Iroquoi *could* have developed a super advanced civilization. They just didn't historically. But that's why you play the game, right?

 

[AIL]

Originally posted by Longasc
someone define "culture", please...

produced by certain buildings
will make borders expand
will make citys without cultureflip

 

[Park Ranger]

Originally posted by Smellincoffee
Civilization comes from civitas-- the culture of cities.

Which I think is the important element for our purposes.

Hinging the classification of "civilization" on the development of reading and writing is antiquated. While some dictionaries will still cling to this requirement, I think historians and anthropologists will not - at least not to the exclusion of Songhai, Incan, and other "civilizations".

Stripping the term of notions of advancement, culture, and literacy, "civilization" is a term most useful for describing the movement away from a hunter-gatherer OR a pastoral society towards an agrarian one which produces enough surplus to allow labour specialization and permanent human settlements, ie cities. If there are historical examples of cities that existed without agricultural support then they too would have to be considered, but I don't think there are any.

So for game purposes, as soon as your first settler drops his pack and sets up that little picnic, you have founded a "civilization" whether or not you already have the alphabet/writing advances.

 

[WickedSmurf]

Originally posted by mintyfreshdeath
Here is the definition according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

Main Entry: civ·i·li·za·tion
Pronunciation: "si-v&-l&-'zA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 1772
1 a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained b : the culture characteristic of a particular time or place
2 : the process of becoming civilized
3 a : refinement of thought, manners, or taste b : a situation of urban comfort
- civ·i·li·za·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective

Apply this to the game and you'll have a new title, like "Tribes and Barbarians".

 

[mintyfreshdeath]

Park Ranger: I'd agree with that actually... It was only when humans started building cities that culture developed. And distinct cultures existed in these cities whether they were the smallest one-city states or empires stretching vast distances.

 

[Mano3]

The Sumerians are considered the first 'organized civilization' in the history field. I'm sure there were other 'civilized' bands of folks in the world, but the Sumerians kept records.

 

[kb2tvl]

Some important aspects of a civ is having a written record of them and a "homeland" with some type of building which may be just a burial place. Also, that civ needed to have some type of influence and that influence was most often war.