What is the best civ for a builder?

[Sloty]

After a very warmonger game, i want to try to win a game only as a builder.
That means: Only fight defensive wars or when really,really neccesary(If i have too many happiness problems for example).
Which civ is best suited for such an approach?
also,which policies are good to choose?

 

[Arumath]

I'd be curious to know other people's opinions on this as well.

I have 2 games that I'm working on one warmonger and one builder. The builder I am using the English for the naval speed to be able to get caravels and settlers to untamed lands quickly and build many colonies.

 

[stormerne]

What's your definition of builder? Do you mean someone who founds a lot of cities? Or do you mean someone who grows their cities as large as possible? Or someone who builds many wonders? Or someone who just has a lot of buildings in their cities? The best approaches vary depending on what you want.

 

[Nunya]

There are many options for civilization. France, China, Egypt, India, Siam, Iroquois, Rome would all be good.

For social policies you might want to grab Oligarchy from Tradition. It gives a 33% combat bonus in friendly territory. Then try stacking it with the Himeji Castle wonder (another 25% strength in friendly lands) and Nationalism policy from Order (25% attack bonus in friendly lands). All three combined give +83% attack and +58% defense in friendly lands, allowing crossbows to easily shoot rifles to pieces.

 

[Bandobras Took]

I give a vote for Rome, Egypt, and -- surprisingly -- the Songhai. Their UB is phenomenal in a peaceful game.

 

[Sloty]

At Stormerne: ermm... all of the things you mentioned...

 

[stormerne]

I'm in a meeting right now ... meanwhile I'll just mention that you may be best going for lots of gold. Grow gold, buy buildings and build wonders. I'll come back to this thread later...

 

[P-Zombie]

I recommend Egypt, for the wonder building bonus. Paired with Aristocracy in Tradition, you're a wonder hogging machine.

You might also consider Rome (25% hammer boost when constructing any building already in your capital) or Ghandi (50% less unhappiness from population, 50% more from number of cities). Both UAs are compatible with a 'big built-up cities' play style.

If you're going for a cultural victory, I'd recommend Tradition, Piety, Patronage, Commerce (unless you're land-locked), and Freedom. Tradition first to get Aristocracy, then work on Piety. Take the culture doubler and SP cost reduction in Freedom as soon as you can, then finish Piety if you haven't already. Get the happiness boosters from the other three trees, and then fill in the rest as you wish.

If you want to win the space race, then Rationalism is your tree, anything else as it suits you.

That's my 2c anyway, good luck.


Edit: I was thinking the "fewer, bigger cities" definition of a builder.

 

[stormerne]

Whatever you do, never ever forsake your military, even if you just keep it within your borders. Always keep it up-to-date - not a problem if you're growing gold and being fed from maritime city states - and never be the weakest or the strongest.

 

[Soronery]

You need to kill at least one civ early off. Otherwise you just won't have the land for it.

 

[stormerne]

So obvious civ choices:

• Egypt for wonder building, but take Aristocracy and get marble anyway.
• Siam for getting the max out of city states, and take the whole Patronage tree. And the Wat is great.
• Persia for golden ages.* And Satrap's Court is good.

* I remember my first "let's see if I can build every wonder in one game" attempt was as Persia, and I had one golden age of 59 turns!

Also rans:

• Rome: small bonus in buildings mirrored in the capital.
• India: happiness bonus but you'll need Planned Economy later.
• France for an early expansion in number of cities.

Social Policies:
Piety can be overrated IMO; the AI always goes for it and it's nice for cultural victories but less so for science and diplomatic victories when Rationalism is a better choice. Freedom and Order are awesome. Patronage (all) for city states. Don't be afraid to cherry-pick the top policies from many trees unless you're set on a cultural victory. If you are going for cultural victory, take Free Religion last-but-two.

Edit: You can take Rationalism and Piety. You'll just lose all the benefits of all the first opened tree policies, and you'll get a turn of non-productive anarchy in between. Still counts as a completed tree though if you finished it!

 

[lindanealmck]

I always end up in war (at Prince and now King level). So I take the first 2 in tradition (for the awesome wonder bonus, and then the honor tree - usually to completion). I usually build Stonehenge, Great Library (be sure to prepick the tech for Pikemen-improved river tile farms, and hit shift return at the end of each turn until that tech is available), the Oracle, Pyramids (for engineering pts and fast workers), and finally Chicken Itza.
Other civs don't like your wonder hogging (which admitted gets a little ridiculous). By the time I finish the honor tree, I have a happiness problem (with lots of puppets). I usually have tons of gold (puppets are gold focused now), so I skip the Patronage tree.
Other key wonders (for my play style) are Forbidden Palace and Sistine Chapel (AI likes this one too).
Nice to have are Himeji Castle, Big Ben (for discounts), and finally Machu Pinchu (need a mountain tile). Machu Pinchu is the only wonder that gives direct gold income, which scales up throughout the game. Mouse over your gold to see exactly how much 20% means to you.
Porcelain Tower gives a free great scientist - not bad.
Notre Dame, Eiffel tower gives a small happiness boost.
Brandenberg gate if you need a general. Louve - 2 free artists - not bad.
Cristo Rendor is late, but helpful.
The Pentagon does stack with Honor tree dicount for cheap upgrades, but again comes very late.
If you play Egypt and have marble at Prince level or lower, you could probably build them all.

 

[fed1943]

At high level:
France for fast expansion by SP;
Babylon for science;
China for gold.
Each of them can be good warriors.

 

[silent93]

Oddly enough, England is pretty good for a builder if you can make it to Machinery. The Longbowman is excellent for holding off your enemies, allowing you to focus more on economy and less on massing defensive troops.

Egypt is excellent at it for many reasons, not the least of which is their UB. No upkeep is good upkeep.

Babylon is also very good at it, though as it stands, their UB isn't so hot. Nice in theory, but it's not enough of a boost unless your enemy is even dumber than the AI. However, their UA makes up for it by allowing accelerated advancement through ages.

Persia may (I haven't tested yet) be good at it as well. The inherent abilities of Immortals, and the fact that their upgrade path ends at Mech Infantry should give them outstanding defensive power. Just have to keep them alive to turn into fast-healing pikemen and then riflemen. Get them the Medic upgrade, and they should be healing 6hp per turn in your territory, fortified. Tough nut to crack, particularly if Tradition and Honor are giving them combat strength boosts through Ogliarchy and Discipline.

 

[Sloty]

Okay thanks all!

How many cities should i build myself?

 

[Rudragun]

I recently did a game with the Aztecs. Their UB is amazing: 15% more food generated allows for some much larger cities than you would have normally.

As to cities, it really depends on the game. Generally speaking, you should make as many cities as there are good sites on the map. You can just buy tiles that have luxury resources if you really don't want many cities.

 

[TM Moot]

one vote for Rome...

the UA gives you a production bonus throughout your empire (just first have Rome build every possible building)

and the legions will clear enough space for your empire to expand into

 

[Civsassin]

Other civs give some situational production bonuses: Rome and Egypt come to mind.
However, when you talk about raw production ability, you have to mention the Iroquois and Russia. If you play the Iroquois, the longhouse gives you +1 production for each forsest tile. If you have starting bias, you will be in an area where there are forests. In the case of the Russians, It's the +1 production for each strategic resource that makes the difference. Strategic resources include aluminum, coal, horses, iron, oil, and uranium. Combine these with policies and buildings that improve production, and these two civs can be production powerhouses.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I've had a really fun builder's game with Babylon. My Bowmen took care of anyone who dared to attack me, and due to the cheap GS, I was able to bulp myself through the game with no effort whatsoever, allowing me to concentrate on City Development.

Rome and a start-biased Iroquois also come to mind. Both have INSANE bonuses to production, and in case of the Iroquois you will have little-to-no trouble in getting a pretty decent income. (since you hardly need roads to connect your cities with). Additionally, both Civs can easily defend their lands against a rushing AI.

 

[Martin Alvito]

It depends on your objectives. Babylon and Siam are the best at pushing tech, enabling the fastest builder wins. If your idea of builder is to play nice for a while slapping up buildings and Wonders, then bury the AI in advanced units, the Iroquois are probably the best. If you want to city spam, India and France are the best options. India can go vertical like no one else, and France gets past three policies even in a pure ICS.

If you want huge cities, that's not allowed until the next patch.