What is the first thing you usually build at the beginning?

[Tabarnak]

I go worker first

Best strategies imply in not building a single worker for the entire game(if not completely isolated). Excepted for multiplayer. Otherwise, Liberty is always the best tree to start for the strongest starts. Problem is that Tradition and Honor doesn't give a single worker(unless you plan to settle directly on luxuries, which is always strong to do).

 

[Snoopaloop]

on harder difficulties you can't afford to mess around with a scout. they die too easily.

If you put them on automate explore, sure.

You shouldn't have to much of a problem keeping a scout alive if you are paying attention to what you are doing, on any difficulty.

 

[RD-BH]

Tough call.

Short on gold, scout(s) first
Short on food, worker first
Short on production, monument first
... or, maybe?
... ... settler first - get outta Dodge!
... ... warrior(s) first - move into neighbor's riverside estate.

Postscript:
Honor does give free worker(s).
... far more than needed.

 

[Soryn Arkayn]

I always build a Monument first, because it's most important to me to generate as much Culture to acquire Social Policies, and expand my borders to access resources ASAP. I can usually beat the AI to most Ancient Ruins using only my starting Warrior, so I don't need a Scout until after I've completed the Monument.

I'll usually train my first Scout by Turn 12-20, which is still enough time to beat the AI to some of the more remote Ruins.

 

[wannabewarlord]

Monument, 99% of the time. I understand the value of scouting, but your first warrior is the cheapest scout you can have. If you move him properly, you get mostly 2 moves out of it as well (Unless you are playing highlands or something ), so I don't really see the need to have a scout as your first build. By the time your monument and then the scout has been built, your warrior is back in your city to protect it from the barbs who will only now start to show up.

My problem is though, that even after the monument, I barely build scouts. A second warrior is my scout then. Maybe I should put out more scouts in general, but so far I haven't been doing badly with my approach to warrior scouting.

 

[Ford]

I go scout first 99%, for pretty much exactly the reasons here:

- let's you know where the barbs will be coming from
- gives you more nations to trade with which means more income
- let's you know what areas to prioritize for settlement
- give you an idea of how best to set up armed perimeters to stave off invasion
- City-State discovery for cash

Then there are ruins. I usually get at least 3, sometimes as many as 6 or 7.
- nearly a free policy
- a highly mobile archer
- a free tech
- some cash

All from one scout.

And you can later use him to do recon on wonders being built, armies being amassed, etc.

 

[woodshadows]

Best strategies imply in not building a single worker for the entire game(if not completely isolated). Excepted for multiplayer. Otherwise, Liberty is always the best tree to start for the strongest starts. Problem is that Tradition and Honor doesn't give a single worker(unless you plan to settle directly on luxuries, which is always strong to do).

Strongest start. How? Why wait around for liberty tree worker when you can steal workers from city states instead?

Why build a monument in first city when second tradition will provide one free?

Scouts are nice, but even with careful handling they often are killed and they aren't very good at aggressive killing themselves. Good if you have a lot of terrain impediments around, otherwise warrior is more useful.

 

[Tabarnak]

Strongest start. How? Why wait around for liberty tree worker when you can steal workers from city states instead?

Stealing workers from CS is a part of these strategies.

Also, buying a worker from your first lux sold is powerful too. That's make 3 workers now with Liberty. If you want a 4th worker, just buy it from other luxs sold(early improved from your early workers ).

Another powerful approach is to take the free settler before free worker from Liberty and settle on a lux for insta-buy of worker. that allows you to make a huge productive 2nd city for more stuff early on.

That's why Liberty is the most powerful. You can build other things. Building workers slows you down.

On higher levels it's even more obvious.

 

[woodshadows]

Stealing workers from CS is a part of these strategies.

Also, buying a worker from your first lux sold is powerful too. That's make 3 workers now with Liberty. If you want a 4th worker, just buy it from other luxs sold(early improved from your early workers ).

Another powerful approach is to take the free settler before free worker from Liberty and settle on a lux for insta-buy of worker. that allows you to make a huge productive 2nd city for more stuff early on.

That's why Liberty is the most powerful. You can build other things. Building workers slows you down.

On higher levels it's even more obvious.

Again, why are you spending money and policies for workers which are one of the few things in this game that you can gather for free through stealing them from citystates or other civs? I rarely end up needing to build any workers in my games, this means all that money that You are spending on workers I can spend on settlers or military, those policies you are using to get a worker (first liberty to open up then second liberty for worker) can be used for more powerful policies like first honour or first tradition. If you can get something for free, shouldn't that be the focus of your strategy? You'll take a minor diplo hit with some other civs and citystates but really, in this game, does that even matter? other civs will hate you if you're doing good or if you're weak and they want your land, citystates anger will go away by the time you have money to buy their friendship.

 

[Kerosene31]

I almost always build monument first. Getting a jump on culture early on is big (especially if I am going liberty which I often am). My warrior will be my first scout. I'm usually researching archery early (unless I am isolated) which usually takes around the same amount of turns as a monument so my next build can be an archer which I find necessary to defend from barbs.

 

[Tabarnak]

Again, why are you spending money and policies for workers which are one of the few things in this game that you can gather for free through stealing them from citystates or other civs? I rarely end up needing to build any workers in my games, this means all that money that You are spending on workers I can spend on settlers or military, those policies you are using to get a worker (first liberty to open up then second liberty for worker) can be used for more powerful policies like first honour or first tradition. If you can get something for free, shouldn't that be the focus of your strategy? You'll take a minor diplo hit with some other civs and citystates but really, in this game, does that even matter? other civs will hate you if you're doing good or if you're weak and they want your land, citystates anger will go away by the time you have money to buy their friendship.

On low levels you can affort stealing more workers without much consequences. On higher levels it's much harder to play the wild cow-boy and let the game going like you wish.

I only talk about optimality. For sure you can win from other trees, it's only about extreme finish dates and high and tight level of play. Like i said, the strongest starts and strategies imply going into Liberty. That's all.

 

[woodshadows]

On low levels you can affort stealing more workers without much consequences. On higher levels it's much harder to play the wild cow-boy and let the game going like you wish.

I only talk about optimality. For sure you can win from other trees, it's only about extreme finish dates and high and tight level of play. Like i said, the strongest starts and strategies imply going into Liberty. That's all.

I play Immortal generally, I can't speak for Deity as I am not even interested in trying, since playing Immortal already is taxing enough in terms of optimization strategies. Having said this, my experience has been that when I first got this game I would often take the Liberty tree first as well. The reason I took it was owing to old civ iv habits where you always wanted speed in getting workers/settlers out quick. I had some decent games taking Liberty first but then I began playing around and realized what a suboptimal tree it really is. Liberty is like cheap candy, it lures you in with the promise of some shiny toys but it lacks sustaining power over the other trees. The first liberty policy is horrible, 1 extra culture per city at a time when you only have 1 city. This is not optimal at all. Instead you can gain 3 culture per turn and expanding borders with tradition's first policy, or if you're planning more of a domination style game the honour's first policy is excellent for letting you smash barb camps, gaining more culture than you'd get with liberty and giving you a chance to easily preempt any barbs invading you by invading them first whenever they spawn. People need to get over liberty and stop using the worker/settler gifts as a crutch.

 

[Tabarnak]

I think the biggest gift from Liberty is definitively the free gp. It can be spawned when you are close to Steel, Chivalry or Machinery for a big jump of your army's strengh. For peaceful game, you want to ensure getting PT or ND from a ge or any other wonders/manufactories if you have built HS.

But one thing is sure : If not playing OCC, take 2 similar maps/victory condition and Liberty will always win. It's dull, because before last patch Tradition was very competitive with Landed Elite as a third policy. It's not the case anymore. At least Honor is somewhat decent with some civs, but still sub-optimal for best finish dates.

Very good players can play with every trees at high levels and still win. But for best finish dates, many threads talk about Liberty as the best tree and it's proven by many posted games.

But for fun factor i agree that going only in the same tree again and again is repetitive and unpleasant if you only want to play a single game.

 

[Camikaze]

I've never been a big fan of scouting, so I generally go for a monument. The cultural bonus is nice, and gets you to a worker faster.

 

[vexing]

I've never been a big fan of scouting, so I generally go for a monument. The cultural bonus is nice, and gets you to a worker faster.

one extra culture ruin from scouting reverses that.

i tend to start scout -> scout -> monument.

 

[Camikaze]

Yeah, I guess that's true. Monuments have the allure of a lasting bonus.

(I don't think my build order is better, but that's the way I approach it, at least)

 

[Tabarnak]

one extra culture ruin from scouting reverses that.

i tend to start scout -> scout -> monument.

Also, for pangea maps style, knowing every civ before writting grants you open borders to sell. This can be 150-200 instant that can be invested in anything. You better build 1 or 2 scouts right of the bat to achieve that(unless you don't go for writting right away or close, or play marathon speed).

 

[vexing]

marathon speed

marathon would cut my scout build to one, at least on emperor+ where the AI starts with a scout. the likelihood of finding ruins with a second scout is severely diminished on marathon.

 

[Lexicus]

Scout first almost always. Only occasionally will I build a Monument first, and never a worker or warrior.

 

[KillingMeSoftly]

I always start with a Scout, and then a Monument. If I'm playing as Isabella, depending on how my initial scouting is going with my Warrior, I may or may not recruit a second Scout. If it's a wide open area, definitely. But if it seems I'm on my own little area, I'll usually skip to the Monument.

Otherwise, always Scout -> Monument.