What is the most underwelming Civ?

[Mailbox]

Give them an inverse Stigmata if you want to reward the Bannor for keeping the AC low.

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

That would be terribly overpowered in the early game, and isn't it the Elohim's job to keep the AC counter low?

 

[Mailbox]

It wouldn't be overpowered at all, the Bannor would get weaker as the counter rose and at 0 AC have full strength.

It might also be a good way of saying the Bannor get weaker as time goes on and they forgot about the trip through hell they had.

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

Wait, so they'd only be at normal strength when the AC was at 0? I don't much see how that would work for them if that's what you mean.

 

[Mailbox]

The promotion would give -.5% instead of +.5% so at 100 AC they would get a -50% bonus instead of the +50% that Stigmata would give. A little bizarre but very effective at forcing the Bannor to wipe out evil as quickly as possible.

 

[Vigilance]

Yeah, i voted doviello too because of same reason.

I love playing the Doviello. They are flat-out built for the early game rush.

I almost always wind up taking out the first two civs I encounter, then spend a long while building a HUGE empire.

 

[Vigilance]

totally agreed that the War Machine should be toned down a bit and made available at a cheaper tech. machinery is incredibly hard to get as the doviello, and it needs bowyers as well...

As someone who plays the Doviello a lot, I disagree 100% with this.

The Doviello have a HUGE advantage in the early game, between Beastmen being better than warriors, Lucian's presence, and the Wild Hunt giving them a huge supply of wolves, which are far more useful in the early game (I havent played a whole game of .34 yet, so the ability to combine wolves into packs may extend the life of Wild Hunt).

Their early game advantage makes a huge empire possible, but they aren't really tech heads.

The War Machine is what fuels the late game push with the Doviello.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'd rather keep The War Machine where it is and at its current strength, but move the hero promotion to and make Lucian their official hero. I'd also make all Dragons much stronger, and give the Doviello the thematically appropriate "Challenge" spell (letting their melee units fight each other for xp).

 

[Vigilance]

I'd rather keep The War Machine where it is and at its current strength, but move the hero promotion to and make Lucian their official hero. I'd also make all Dragons much stronger, and give the Doviello the thematically appropriate "Challenge" spell (letting their melee units fight each other for xp).

I have mixed feelings about Lucian being a real hero.

True, he becomes obsolete after awhile, but he's already a BIG advantage in the early game, an axeman when everyone else the Doviello run into is a warrior.

He's a big key to a lot of my early game rushes with the Doviello to take out my unfortunate neighbors. He can usually soften up any especially tough units enough for a cadre of Beastmen to take enemy capitols.

If he was a real hero, he'd be even more powerful.

Actually, what I'd like most is for him to be upgrade-able I think.

Since I fight so much with him early, and since he has an early edge as an axeman, he usually doesn't have a hard time getting promotions. If I could bump him up to Champion-level or Paladin-level strength, then he'd be a force through the whole game.

As it is, I usually give him the Defensive promotion during my early conquests, which makes him an ok defensive unit for a long time.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well...he should at least have the iron weapons that his pedia entry says he possesses even though his people haven't had the means to make such tools or weapons for a long time.

 

[Vigilance]

That's something that was always a little confusing to me about FfH, even though it gives the game a nice flavor.

If you have a swordsman and you dont have a source of Bronze, Iron or Mithral, what *are* their weapons made out of?

I always assumed it was just substandard metal, but it was still a little odd when I was first playing.

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

Here's one to throw you for a further loop: Bronze is actually a horrible metal for a sword. And yet, that's when Swordsman become available.

 

[Vigilance]

Yeah, I thought the first short swords really were Bronze though? I believe the Greeks occasionally used swords, and almost all their weapons were made of Bronze.

 

[Psycho_Ivan]

Yeah, swords can be made out of Bronze but as far as metals go, it gets dull pretty quickly. This isn't too big of a problem for axes incidentally, but for a sword it's a big matter.

 

[das]

I am going to have to agree with the Bannor not living up to the promise of their lore bit (plus AI Bannor never seem to do particularly well in my games). Maybe give them some unique units with Holy damage?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

nice idea about a reversed Stigmata for the Bannor, it would be quite fitting. it would probably need some balancing like a cap, but it's very flavourful imho.

and I support Lucian being the Hero of the Doviello

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I've said it multiple times, a long time ago, that CIV is strategy game but also a simulation game. I like Kael's approach, that and thank goodness to powerful PC's which allows this kind of statistical simulation. I'd say take it a step further and simulate on maps other than pangaea.

As for playing all 20 civs... we can't, but that's what the forums are for - discussion and reasoning. CIV is like a giant boardgame, we don't have to try every move to know that most moves don't work. I voted the Bannor because of the spirit of the original poster: all civs in FFH2 are overpowered in its own way, but the Bannor doesn't have any powers!!!

 

[Vigilance]

I guess I'm just weird, because the Bannor are one of the Civs I play a lot, and they do pretty darn well for me.

As for not having any powers, I've found that building up towns, then going Crusade when you enter a sufficiently big enough war to be a HUGE power.

If you have Iron (and I always try to snag mines of Gal Dur when playing the Bannor), you have Strength 7 Demagogues popping up every few turns in every town. That's like 5-6 free soldiers every turn.

I've overwhelmed the Hyborem with sheer weight of numbers, using the Dems as suicide troopers.

 

[avalonnn]

and if you're having problems with mercs as allies, remember to give them your spare resources and also a few cities near your front lines.